Topic: Allotment Land Ownership

[skintnbitter]

Hi, Newbie Here!

I have recently become an owner of an allotment plot on a new private site which has just been opened near me.

I had a strange converstion the other day, when i just asked in passing who own's the land? and was told that we do! When asked them to clarify, i was told that each person who has been assigned a plot now owns that bit of land???

I am really confused, along with others as we pay £25.00 per year for the plot.

Has anyone ever come across this before, is this normal?

Thanks

[Grant]

think you need to get some free advice from some where.  In Manchester we have a department at the Town Hall.  Who are you paying the money to is it a private landlord and is there paper work to do with ownership of the land somewhere.

[OllieC]

The Crown Estate own everything in Britain. That's why you only have a freehold title if you buy a house... technically you're only renting it off the queen. Or something. Someone told me this in a pub once.

[Barnowl]

The Crown Estate own everything in Britain. That's why you only have a freehold title if you buy a house... technically you're only renting it off the queen. Or something. Someone told me this in a pub once.

.............so it must be true :)

Actually not  -the Crown Estate do own nearly all the seabed, but if land is registered in your name it's yours (or the banks :)), not the Crown Estate's.

Who owns above and below it is much more complicated!

[OllieC]

No, it's true! (I actually learnt it for an exam once...).

The monarch is the only person in England and Wales who is capable of owning land. Everyone else who thinks they might only land only owns a set of rights and duties to the Crown.

That is where the term freehold comes from a freeholder is said to 'hold the land' for the Crown and in exchange they are normally fairly free to do what they want on the land.

I did nick this from someone else's website, but it's what I was told too!

[Robert_Brenchley]

That's certainly the medieval position; the king owned the land, and a knight held his fief in return for a 'knight's service', which was the provision on an (immensely expensive) armoured horseman for thirty days per year. Title deeds still say you hold the land 'in fee simple', or directly from that woman in other words, but I'm not sure of the exact legal position. I doubt whether she could demand an armoured knight in exchange for allowing you to retain your house!

[grawrc]

Leaseholder has to give it back at the end of the lease but freeholder owns it outright. Often the lease is for 100 years.

In Scotland we did away with "feu duty" (feudal system where you had to pay a feu or "rent"to the real owner for the right to have the land) many years ago so if you buy a house it's yours.

[OllieC]

A freeholder is still a tenant though... albeit as a technicality...

[Suzanne]

My second allotment is on land rented from a private owner. I am not sure that she would think that we owned the land we rented from her. Same as if I rented my house out, someone could pay for the use of it but doing so would not give them outright ownership. Although i agree that the rental would preclude me from using it as my property without permission from the rentee during the perid of the lease.

Gosh - this is getting a bit deep and legalise!

[DenBee]

As it happens, I think the Queen Mother's family used to own my allotment.  It was part of the Bowes-Lyon estate, but it's now covenanted for use as allotments - and managed privately, not council-run.  Much to the despair of the likes of Bellway, etc., who would dearly love to buy it (and the other 60-odd on the site) for building lovely lucrative houses on.  Shame.   ;D

[Baccy Man]

OllieC is right according to the 'Land Registration Act 2002'.

Freehold estate in land: the Crown is the only absolute owner of land in England and Wales: all others hold an estate (i.e. an interest) in land. Freehold is the estate which is the nearest equivalent to absolute (and permanent) ownership.

This & lots more useless information can be found here:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2002/en/02en09-h.htm

[Barnowl]

I stand corrected!  :)

[twinkletoes]

Do you think (thanks to the credit crunch) we can all rest easy for the time being, believing that our allotments are safe from house builders wanting to buy the land to build on?
twinkletoes

[electric landlady]

but to reply to skintnbitter's question, do you have a written agreement saying who you pay the £25 to and why? Cos if it says you're paying rent, then you don't own the land but you have a lease (tenancy) from the person who does, or possibly from someone renting off them. As far as I know, all allotment holders have some sort of lease rather than ownership of their land. Giving ownership of little bits of land out of a whole site to lots of different people would be a legalistic nightmare and would keep the lawyers rich for decades.

Your lease (if that's what it is) will say who your landlord is (the person who probably owns the land), what your rights are and in what circumstances you could be made to give up your plot. If you have no written agreement, then ask the person/body you're paying the £25 to why you're paying it and all should be revealed.

yours legalistically, etc...