Ta for that. Had a bash, hurt me ears but it worked, will go for the wire brush treatment today. Its a Bulldog and I think its a border spade, its not a biggy. Had a dig with it on Thursday and it felt really good. Just hated thinking I'd fell for a pup but am well chuffed now. Gave my old spares away to a local project last year but wasn't partial to them anyway. These two 'new to me' ones feel like real tools if you know what I mean.