Topic: Council lack of Interest

[rocky]

hello allotmenteers,

myself and my fellow plot holders are now in the process of setting up a new society, after months of problems with the regime that is now being replaced.

one of my major frustrations is the way the local council (especially the allotments manager) do not want to be involved at all, even though the sole trustee is at the route of many of the problems.

if anyone has experience of something similiar, i would be gratefull of any pearls of wisdom, even advice on how to tackle this (getting the council to act) without making enemies of them.

as a new allotment gardener, and the now elected chair of our society i feel a sense of responsibility to our members, and want to get it right for their sake as much as mine.

all feedback gratefully recieved,
thanks.. Des

[djbrenton]

What council are you with? There might be people who have experience dealing with them.


(Please don't say Newbury, Unwashed will explain why)

[Unwashed]

The NSALG are good in these situations.  And what DJB said.  :-X

[pansy potter]

I wonder .Do you happen to be on the same allotment site as tony69 ?

[rocky]

it just so happens that tony69 is the secretary.. all good fun. we need to get things sorted for everyones benefit... there is one official who really is trying to help, but he can only try to point me in the right direction as he doesnt know all the answers.

[tony69]

hello rocky you snuck up on me there ha ha

does that mean were all on here now  :D :D see you later mate

[cornykev]

Careful what you say though lads, councils do have a habit of lurking on here.   :P

[pigeonseed]

I wonder whether lack of interest or support can sometimes just be to do with the people not having time for anything but the most essential tasks.

Sometimes they're just fending off requests because they have enough trouble keeping on top of the most urgent work. That's going to be a bigger problem for a while, due to council cutbacks. Our council has been cut and cut in that department, and I think it's very demoralising for them.

I don't know about other councils, but here, allotments are just one part of the whole job these people do - they do cemetaries, parks, hanging baskets, green spaces, verges bla bla bla. All competing for funds and attention.

And so the reason I say all that is that if you make it clear you appreciate the reality of their situation, you might get a less defensive reaction from them. Not sure it works, but it's a strategy!  ;D

[djbrenton]

What part exactly do you want the council to play? All sites which are self-managed which means you are pretty much on your own anyway. There will be scant help/involvement from the council as they expect the society to manage with almost no council involvement. Is there something identifiable you need their help with?

[tony69]

Our biggest prob is that the last chair used to walk round saying the council wanted this then that and on tuesday it was on the left and friday it was on the right,were just wanting this clarified so's not to do things wrong.

We would also like to know we have there backing with what we are trying to do, the plot holders would like to feel that removing the ex committee will not all end in tears ie loss of there plots which is what the old team is saying .

I really dont think its much just to say your fine and safe keep up the good work or something along those lines  :D :D

thanks tony

[rocky]

hi tony.. didnt realise at first you were on this one mate!!

to all those who have replied, i am acutely aware its probably an awkward topic, and although i appreciate that the council staff are overburdened with the way things are at present, my frustration and plea for advice comes from two points.
1, i want to do everthing i can to be a good and fair chairman, doing whats right for my site and ALL its members, even those who have been troublesome.
2, i have found that the allotments manager has never wanted to know, never returned a call or e-mail, and has even upset the counsellor who has been trying to help by going behind her back!!!

as i stated before there is a gentleman in the council who is trying his best to help but again he has a role to fulfill not just to service my needs.

[Unwashed]

Des, Tony, as has been said, the Council aren't going to help you get up and running, you're expected to do that for yourselves.  Lots and lots of help here, some really top site managers, so just ask - specifically - what you need to know.

The one issue that you need the Council's help with is the lease, and I think you need them to forfeit the existing one because the trustees have gone walkabout, and give you a new one.

You've joined the NSALG now, right?

[djbrenton]

I've PMd you on this Unwashed. I agree that the current tenancy agreement needs to be forfeit, but with a trustee still around that's not all that easy.

[Unwashed]

I've PMd you on this Unwashed. I agree that the current tenancy agreement needs to be forfeit, but with a trustee still around that's not all that easy.

Thanks DJB, PH sent.

Once it's forfeit the previous trustee isn't an issue, and as the lease allows the notice to be served on the association secretary or left on site there isn't even a need to contact the previous trustee.  Notice to quit would also work, but it'll take over a year.

[Unwashed]

There are a couple of other ways around this trustee problem of trustees moving on and how the trustees work with the committee:

One solution is for the association to incorporate, and then as a legal person it becomes the sole trustee.  The association then sets its own rules about who sites on the commitee and how the site is managed, though the committee will still be obliged to keep any of the stipulations in the trust.  It doesn't need to, but it's not unusual to appoint association officers called "trustees" - they're not strictly trustees as such because they don't own the association property, but they oversee the management of the site to see that the terms of the trust, and more generally the rules of the association, are kept.

Another solution is pretty much the same as the previous one, but with a single incorporated federation that owns all of the sites in a group, and the sites themselves are managed under licence by local associations.  The advantage here is that the legal obligation that go with being a body corporate, like filing accounts and being audited, get done once for everyone and the locla association just involve themselevs with running their sites.  It has the added advantage that the central federation does the evicting if it's ever necessary as it's an unpleasant business, and it can act as something of a neutral arbiter in the event of local disputes.

[tony69]

Hi folks,

Well this is a update where I really dont know what to say  :o.

We have done everything in the correct order step by step as insisted by our local councellor.
You will have all read the ups and downs we've been through. We have been told we are in charge on this site by everyone we speak to in the normal allotment world only to have it ripped from our grasp by our bourough council yet again  :o :o.

Our LABOUR council wish us to belive they have given one man the power of god over their land (our taxpayers land) and there's nothing in the lease to allow the them to intevene, their hands are tied, we are supposed to belive the council are this daft, if this is true next council elections my vote is going somewhere usefull, our local juniour school maybe, even they wouldnt be that thick  ??? ??? ???.

We've had emails from their legal department telling us we cannot see the lease as its private between them and our 1 and only trustee not even a councellor can read it. The freedom of Information Act also does not apply here by all accounts ????????.

We were informed there should be 3 trustee's and if we wish to add more names we need our existing trustee's permission.......yeh right.
 
They say the trustee can break as many rules as he wishes because they are his rules, he does not have to turn all the land back into allotments just some of it, which I also feel is strange. There was only one thing that came out of the meeting and that is the council will pay for a mediator between us and the trustee. We already know his answer but we will let the council waste yet another month waiting for him to reply with his 'Not a chance' attitude.

In my opinion, and only my opinion, something rotten has and still is going on here that nobody will tell us about.

The Secretary
not, am, not, am, not am  :D :D
 



This post has ben edited with consent of the original poster. PKL

 

[Robert_Brenchley]

That's sick. If there are supposed to be three trustees (have the Council admitted that in writing) then is the situation legal with only one?

[Digeroo]

Sounds as if you need some legal advice about the duties of a trustee.  They surely cannot work in their own best interest.

[jules2]

As far as Local Councils go nothing surprises me.

Because of the way we allotment holders were treated by our Parish Council I stood for election in May and forced the first election in 12 years winning a seat with a large vote.

In six months I have seen money wasted at all three levels ( Parish, Borough and County ) and some of the decisions I've seen made ( or not made ) make the Vicar of Dibley's Parish Council seem cutting edge!

The main problem is lack of interest by us the public in either standing for election or questioning decisions which allows Council Officials to become judge and jury.

We are Conservative controlled at all three levels but especially at Parish level they oppose all of David Cameron and Eric Pickles initiatives for public involvement and openness.

I could ramble on for hours but one thing I do know is that Councillors have the right to see the lease.

If I were you I'd send the Email's to the Information Commissioners for their advice as I've found them very helpful.

Also publicity works but be careful not to end up in a legal dispute with the "leaseholder"


Good luck.

[tony69]

Hi jules

We have decided we will take our file of the site and all its runnings with us to the council when we go for mediation and see what they say, all we want is our site to be run like most sites in the area even and fair. we feel the legal route may well work but i would like to exhaust every other route first. 

We have lots of ideas for running the site now, lots of new friends from other sites helping us and plans are made we're just waiting.

Rules etc are in place everyone is happy with what we have done we're just waiting for the word go. Infact if im honest im waiting for a word whether its yes or no its the limbo that kills. I find it very hard to fight what i can't see, it would be hard to play a game without the rules.

heres hoping

Tony  :-\ :-\