Green manure

[grawrc]

Not sure whether this should go here or in Allotment Basics.

I am pretty sure that I won't get the whole of my new plot dug and planted this season so I would like to plant some green manure. Which are the most useful to help with enriching and breaking up soil that has not been tilled for over eight years?

I have also read that some of the green manures can be very difficult to remove and would therefore become a nuisance in their own right so want to avoid that problem.


Any advice welcome!

[grawrc]

[SMP1704]

Grawc, you bet me to it!  I have the same question.  From what I have read, I think rye grass should be avoided as it is a pain to dig in and takes ages to rot down and can re-shoot (my definition of a weed) >:(

In my case, I have heavy clay soil and more than my fair share of couch and horsetail, so all advice on green manures would be gratefully received.

Thanks

[grawrc]

I'm thinking of red clover, fenugreek (read the thread), lupin and tares but would welcome some expert input pleeeeese.

[vee]

I've bought phacelia, because it doesn't interfere with rotations as some do. I've never used a green manure before though so I don't know if it will be any good.

I'm hoping it will be easy to dig in.

[Robert_Brenchley]

It's quite easy to dig in, and grows and flowers well. There was a big patch in a garden I pass on the way to the allotment last year, and for weeks it was covered with my bees.

[derbex]

Phacellia's good, and bees & hover flies like it, I don't think it will out-compete couch. If you can't dig part of your plot I don't think that green manures will clear it for you, I'd just cover with whatever you can. If you can dig then green manure should keep it more or less clear.

I've tried grazing rye -my main problem was keeping it alive -slugs loved it. I cut it down and covered it a month or so before I wanted the bed and it wasn't a problem. Of the others I've tried I'd go with phacellia, although if you're leaving it a long time (over winter from now say) alfalfa may be better. You can cut if for compost and it's supposed to have a lot of soil benefits too, I haven't tried it, although I hope to, and I have heard it said that it can be difficult to kill off -but covering it for a while should do for it :).

[Robert_Brenchley]

They say some green manures swamp the weeds but I wouldn't count on it myself; I know my vampire weeds too well for that. Look at it as a way of improving your soil.

[grawrc]

Well I've more or less cleared the top growth and during the year aim to keep adding tilled plots to what is done, but I'd rather have green stuff growing than sheets of black plastic.

It looks like phacelia is a popular choice so I think I'll go for that. Also red clover since it's pretty too and fenugreek because it's multi-purpose, unless anyone else knows better.

[grawrc]

I've now visited the wiki and found it very helpful. Thanks to whoever put the info there. Silly really I should have looked there first. :-[

[Curryandchips]

Thank you grawrc for posting anyway, because I want to consider green manures for overwintering, and know I can consult our ever expanding wiki now  :)

[MikeB]

In the wiki in the section on tomatoes, there is an article on growing a bumper crop of tomatoes, but first you have to plant an overwintering green manure ' hairy vetch '. Does anybody know where I can buy hairy vetch seeds.

Regards

[jennym]

... Does anybody know where I can buy hairy vetch seeds....

I think you may be able to get these from agricultural seed suppliers, there is one called Boston Seeds that does some vetches, not sure if it does hairy vetch.

[grawrc]

They have winter vetch which I believe (???) is the same as hairy vetch?

[flowerlady]

my betime book at the moment is Joy Larkcom's "Grow Your Own Vegetables"

see if you can acquire a copy, in it she details all you need to know, which to grow, when and where, in what soil etc!

[Lois Pallister]

HI Grawrc,

If you are talking about having a green manure in place during the growing season you could try the mexican marigold 'Tagetes Minuta'. It grows to 6'-10' tall with small flowers, it's growing season being April to November and I am going to try it on my second plot where I will be installing a large herb garden.

Its root secretions prevent eelworm from detecting a following crop of spuds, kills groundelder and also has a very detrimental effect on bindweed and couch!!! It doesn't seed here because of the temperatures and should provide a lot of bulk for your compost bins  :)

Check out these pages:

http://www.organiccatalog.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_50_142&products_id=1377

http://www.eseeds.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=279523&prmenbr=127&CGRY_NUM=5619

Lois

[grawrc]

Flowerlady I have the book you suggest in my Amazon shopping list. Thank you for the recommendation.

Lois that sounds like a good idea. I'll try some and see how it goes. Thanks!

[flowerlady]

One could definitely get carried away with using these!!  There are so many I would like to try, might have difficulty in finding a square inch for the veggies!!  :o  ::)  ;)

[grawrc]

Well I hope not to get carried away. :o :o
I intend to plant green manure where I don't have time to clear enough for planting yet and then of course when plots are vacant during the winter.

[John_H]

I had a quick glance at the History of that Wiki page on green manure for you Grawrc.

Common Clay added some info about Buckwheat and MikeB put in some stuff on Red Clover, the pictures and bits on Poached Egg plant were added by me.

I’m a big fan of Poached Egg Plant because it is low growing, you can start it off in September, it doesn’t conflict with any other crops, gives full cover over the winter and you can cut by late March. (its got quite a nice pepper taste which would make an interesting addition to green salad mix, I don’t know how good it is for you though!).

[grawrc]

I like it too John. It's a very  pretty plant I think as well as useful.