Daft spacing question

[sazhig]

Having been chased away from my new lottie by the rain this morning I am back to my planning ;D (although as soon as I opened my spreadsheet the sun came out ::)

Am a little confused about how to space out the veg in my beds. I am going for a permanent bed system: With 2 beds per rotation group, each 4ft deep & as wide as the plot, & planting in blocks rather than rows. Now my question is this - when spacing out the seeds/plants how much space should I leave between them & the edge of the bed? Should it always be the same as the spacing between the seeds or can I get away with having them closer. I am presuming that somethings like potatoes will need the same kind of space to allow for earthing up, and other root or bushy veg will need the space...but for things like sweetcorn that grow vertically do I have to leave such a large gap?

Sorry of this seems a daft question, but I cant seem to find any info about this ???

Saz

[sazhig]

[Mrs Ava]

Most things I plant nice and close to the edge, but not to close that when trimming the grass I trim the plants!  I try to imagine what the mature specimen will look like and plant it in the middle  so it should fill the expected gap.  Or at least, that is the theory, I do seem to spend the entire walk down my allotment swerving to miss the cardoon, globe artichokes, lettuce, fruit bushes, apple trees, raspberry canes and cabbages!

[MikeB]

Check the spacing on the seed packet, it is usually given as for example ' Sow seed 4 inches apart in rows 12 inches apart. ' In the block method using the previous example you would sow the seed 4 inches apart in all directions and totally ignore the row measurement. I usually half the distance for how close to the edge i.e. 2 inches

[Curryandchips]

Half the row width is the measurement I work to with borders.

[sazhig]

That kind of makes sense! Just checking though - presumably the distance rows should be apart is really for ease of access rather than anything to do with room for the plant to grow? Hence why in a bed system that measurement is ignored as you already have good access to all the plants?

I'm finding all this rather hard (in case you hadn't noticed ;)). I think understanding why things can be done a certain why helps an awful lot!

Saz

[MikeB]

Sazhig, try the following thread, it's on raised beds, but spacing is discussed

http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,57/topic,18312.msg195202#msg195202

[supersprout]

Hey saz,

if you have edges on your beds, you can plant quite close to the sides. If not, the edges will be a bit drier and you might tidy them up with a hoe from time to time, so it's a good idea to leave more space. Curry's is a good default - half a row width. But you can be flexible, depending on the crop - it's a bit of trial and error. You'll want to be able to use the paths when the veg are fully grown. These beds are just over 1m wide, and show some spacing/layout options for different crops on my plot :)


Comfrey in rows, early spuds in rows, garlic offset


Broad beans and dwarf peas offset, mangetout (tall sticks) in rows


Jerusalem artichokes - single row

If you haven't already got your mitts on Pauline Pears' Beds, it's got an excellent spacing and layout guide for most veg ;D

[sazhig]

Ta for the piccies supersprout - yes they do help ;D I'm finding it very confusing trying to learn all about veg & growing etc when half the information I have available talks about rows :-\

The beds are unlikely to have edging for a while yet. I would like them to for sheer neatness value, but any timber I manage to scrounge will be going towards compost bins & then a shed (if I cant manage to scrouge a whole one - DH says he will build me one out of odd bit of wood if necessary :)). I've already managed to get one pallet off freecycle this week so hopefully it wont take too long to get enough for the first beds.

Ta as well for reminding me about Pauline Pears it was on my wishlist & I completely forgot about it - just got a copy off ebay nice & cheap!

Hopefully the weather will hold long enough tomorrow for us to actually use the strimmer we have hired >:( & some of my lovely plans can be started.

Thanks again all
Saz

[supersprout]

The beds are unlikely to have edging for a while yet. I would like them to for sheer neatness value

glad to hear you're not edging the beds straight away, check you can reach to the middle comfortably - mine started at the recommended 1.25m and I reduced them to 1.1m so I really could!
just wait til you get that PP book, there'll be no stopping you :o
imho edgeless beds are FAR neater (and slugless) ;) ;D :-*

[Tee Gee]

[quote  presumably the distance rows should be apart is really for ease of access rather than anything to do with room for the plant to grow?
[/quote]

A bit of both I would say!

I tend to use my rake as a spacing aid i.e.

My rake is roughly 12" wide meaning multiples of rake widths suit most plants, e.g.

Lettuce 12" spread (1 rake width) cabbage 18" spread (1½ widths) sprouts 24" spread ( 2 widths)

I find these widths alow sufficient access for hoeing until the plants have matured.

Then of course if you are sowing/planting multi rows planting in a 'chevron' pattern gives some added growing space.

Hope that helps!

[stuffed]

Check the spacing on the seed packet, it is usually given as for example ' Sow seed 4 inches apart in rows 12 inches apart. ' In the block method using the previous example you would sow the seed 4 inches apart in all directions and totally ignore the row measurement.

I read that if growing in blocks you should add the distances together, so in this example add 4" to 12" (16") and divide by 2 so making the spacing 8" each way.

[amphibian]

Check the spacing on the seed packet, it is usually given as for example ' Sow seed 4 inches apart in rows 12 inches apart. ' In the block method using the previous example you would sow the seed 4 inches apart in all directions and totally ignore the row measurement.

I read that if growing in blocks you should add the distances together, so in this example add 4" to 12" (16") and divide by 2 so making the spacing 8" each way.

Ah yes, I remember hearing that before.

[MikeB]

I read that if growing in blocks you should add the distances together, so in this example add 4" to 12" (16") and divide by 2 so making the spacing 8" each way.

Yet the method I'm using is from square foot gardening where you plant 16 onions for example in a square foot.  Using your method  and the typical spacing for Onions as 6" apart by 12" row, =6+12 = 18, divide by 2 would give me 9" each way, which to me seems a bit excessive.  I've got a relatively small veg patch 25' by 60' and as such need the highest yield possible per foot.  I have used the spacing of 3" each way for onions and normally get medium size onions i.e. 4 per pound. So on my onion bed of 10' x 4' I expect to get 640 onions e.g. 160lbs.  Perhaps if I had a larger plot I would spread them out more, but your actions tend to be dictated by your circumstances.
My Onion bed is top middle

[MikeB]

imho edgeless beds are FAR neater (and slugless) ;) ;D :-*

What's wrong with this then?

[supersprout]

touche mike ;)
if you're going to edge your beds, that's the way to do it ;D what an impeccable plot! :o :o :o

[stuffed]

Yet the method I'm using is from square foot gardening where you plant 16 onions for example in a square foot.  Using your method  and the typical spacing for Onions as 6" apart by 12" row, =6+12 = 18, divide by 2 would give me 9" each way, which to me seems a bit excessive.  I've got a relatively small veg patch 25' by 60' and as such need the highest yield possible per foot.  I have used the spacing of 3" each way for onions and normally get medium size onions i.e. 4 per pound. So on my onion bed of 10' x 4' I expect to get 640 onions e.g. 160lbs.  Perhaps if I had a larger plot I would spread them out more, but your actions tend to be dictated by your circumstances.
My Onion bed is top middle

Ah, now I didn't say I followed this rule myself, I just thought I'd input what I had read.  I haven't been growing very long and most of what I do grow is in the garden where I don't have much space so I tend to ignore advice and do whatever I feel like.  I only grow a lot of things to get a 'taste' so I don't mind if I get a small crop as it's never going to be very big anyway.