health and safety gone mad

[isbister]

I know this won't cut any ice with all those who don't have water on site but we used to have lots of lovely cistern operated dipping tanks fed from the mains. I don't have to tell you how efficient, convenient and quick a dipping tank is for watering ones veg. Last week in an act of appalling vandalism the council have ripped them all out and replaced with standpipes so now it's a hose or nothing. And the reason is: "allotment water storage tanks present a small risk of legionella contamination" Oh really? That's all right then, I thought for a moment they were worried we might fall in and drown. Any day now I'm expecting the arrival of a St John's First Aid Post in case someone pokes their eye with a stick.

[isbister]

[froglets]

Oh good grief.

Doesn't surprise me tho.  Our climbing hut in Snowdonia has water fed from a mountain stream through a pipe into the kitchen & to my knowlege, in the 50 years we've had the hut, no one's been ill.  In fact a few people with ME & allergy problems actively come over & fill gallons worth of containers & take the water home.  Then when we built a loo block, we had to incorporate UV & filtration systems onto that water feed to comply with building regs, so technically, the water we flush our loos with is cleaner than the stuff we use for eating & drinking.

[quizzical1]

If the authorities did that at our allotments, and only put the stand pipes where the troughs were, it would mean some people would have to have extremely long hoses to reach the back end of their plot.
Plots are about 5 metres by 50 metres(10 pole?), and there is only a trough about every 10th plot or more.
As it is those furthest from the troughs have a hell of a walk. That's probably why most plot have 2 or 3 interlinked water butts collecting rainfall from the shed roofs.

I suppose an upside to it would be that you could surreptitiously use a sprinkler if no one was around?

[cambourne7]

were currently raising money to buy to things they have just taken out.

Have you contacted them to see if you can sell them?? or give them to another allotment association??

[Amazin]

isbister,

If the authorities did that at our allotments, and only put the stand pipes where the troughs were, it would mean some people would have to have extremely long hoses to reach the back end of their plot.

What about putting the case to the council that the people furthest away would have to carry their water - if you have any disabled allotmenteers, you could mention the DDA - most councils run a mile if they're accused of discrimination.

[isbister]

There is nothing to be done because "all councils have been obliged to seek consultative advice on all water supplies and storage in their borough" I don't know where this consultative advice comes from, somewhere west of Fairyland I think, but maybe you can expect stupidity to descend on an allotment near you. Meanwhile my local council have just advertised a post for someone to tour the borough and check no one is running with scissors...

[Two Choices]

Sounds like a real over reaction. Legionella is actually in most water supplies but breeds to dangerous levels when in nice warm conditions (around 70 deg C) and where there is stagnant or little regular water flow.  It is caught by us humans when a mist or fine spray is inhaled and not when caught by large splashes.  So in fact, you are at more risk using hose pipes and filling containers than when immersing your watering can.

Also, by the time the water warms up to breeding temperature at the lottie tanks, the ballcock is probably constantly open and fighting to keep up with the demand from those trying to keep their produce alive.

We'll probably end up all have to have medicals and be jabbed up against everything and anything as we move more into the litigious and PC quagmire.....sorry starting to be a Grumpy old ***...whoops! can't even say old anymore

[ThomsonAS]

One of the reasons I took my plot is that it has a communal cistern in one corner!

If my borough council tried a similar move, my arguments would run:

The Council is fulfilling its duty entirely properly by assessing possible risks and identifying legionella as a potential risk - but in seeking to eliminate such a risk in the manner proposed, they are acting wholly DISPROPORTIONATELY.

Compared to other risks on an allotment site (from chemicals to sharp tools) the real and serious risk of legionella would not be at the top of anyone's list  - so instead of changing the whole system, the council could make a PROPORTIONATE response by warning users of the risks(which is exactly what either my council and/or site association does by having a laminated notice posted on our site gate).

Try it - the council can  be seen to have met its stautory responsibilities entirely properly at minimal cost and without upsetting plot-holders who routinely play with chemicals, sharp and pointy objects, and risk tetanus from the soil if their innoculations aren't up to date (as I discovered last month that mine weren't!).

Also ask the jstaff behind this, exactly what documented evidence they have of case of legionella transmitted from allotment watertanks compared to other allotment or garden-related injuries and illnesses in the UK.

Let us know how this goes. And lobby the elected members on your council - whatever their political complexion and duty to listen to council staff, they ought to be amenable to reason.

Final comment would be not to confuse irritation with the  (ridiculous/slightly pathetic) Elf'n'Safety nazis (save that for this board!) with the real goal of overturning their silly decision. Once you've done the second, you can move on to the first!

good luck


Alastair

How it then chooses

[Robert_Brenchley]

I think you'll find that Legionella only becomes a risk when it enters the air in fine droplets which can be inhaled. Perhaps you should ask them to explain how this is going to happen. It may simply be a question of an incompetent risk assessor who doesn't understand what's involved.

http://www.waterionisation.com/legionella045.html

[theothermarg]

Sorry a bit off subject but while visiting my son at Worle near Weston super Mare
we walked through the churchyard which looked as through it had been vandalised
only to be told it was health and safety. most headstones and crosses had been
pushed down many had been smashed it was a terrible site. it makes you wonder how we survived without the nanny state
margaret >:(

[delaney]

probably find there were less accidents and diseases spread when there was a lot less rules and regs  ;)

[MrsKP]

wish i'd have read this thread earlier when i phoned our local water board to tell them that raw sewage was escaping through a stopcock cover out on the pavement.

apparently as it's not pouring into any houses it's not a high enough priority to have anyone out to look at it tonight (about 5.15pm) and tomorrow will have to do.

i just hope Brownies (scuse the pun) aren't on at the church tonight and slip on any of it and let's not worry about the little children who will either have to tiptoe through it or walk in the road to avoid it tomorrow morning.

but i guess this is glasgow where they eat their weans.  we're made of tough stuff up here !

[Amazin]

When my parents were growing up in the Calton, they would have called that a nature reserve.

;D

[MrsKP]

if i thought it was horse or cow, i'd have been out there with my dustpan and brush.  sadly i couldn't find any straw it it, just Andrex  :-X

[isbister]

Thanks for excellent observations and advice re legionella - am writing to council again right now with further ammunition...

[sawfish]

but i guess this is glasgow where they eat their weans.  we're made of tough stuff up here !

sorry to change the subject but...

We certainly like the 'hard stuff' up here if these nightmare statistics are anything to go by.

:-[

http://tinyurl.com/2l8qd2

[MrsKP]

not for the faint hearted eh ?  Must admit when I first moved up here (I'm a south of the border exile) we did like a parrrtaaaaaaayyyy, but I've calmed down and am now at peace on my plot.  Moderation is the key !

There is some serious work to be done !   :(

[Amazin]

Moderation? Does that mean 'with ice'?

;D

[MrsKP]

and a slice.   ;D

[Amazin]

Oh goody - a crate of Moderation for me, then!    ;D