Heavy Clay Soil

[Old bird]

.

I'm sorry if it came out as nasty, but what can you do when despite saying repeatedly I dislike lazy people who are too bone idle to invest their own time in finding out how to do something.The same happy clappy, tambourine banging rubbish comes back at you.

Some people are worth helping, most aren't.Fact of life, people who work hard succeed, those that don't find other unsuccessful people and talk about it.




Brute force and ignorancce and bullying are all you seem to understand. 

I cannot imagine for the life of me that anyone would speak to you more than once with your way of believing that your way is the only way.

What is it with you?  Can you not imagine that some ladies find the initial digging hard work!   Are you really saying that you have to start at one end and work your way to the other - what bloody difference does it make if we put deep beds in without levelling etc.  Are you so bloody perfect that everything in your garden is so perfect that we should all learn a lesson from you.

I seriously think that you are doing this as a joke - I cannot believe that someone like you still exists.  Thank goodness you live in Hampshire and there is not a chance in hell that I would ever meet you driving your gas guzzling car that you worked hard to buy!

I pity your neighbours on your allotment site if this is really how you are!  Don't you realise that people like you died out in the '50's and 60's.

Old Bird
:o

[Old bird]

[Gazfoz]

Just to get a little balance:-

People need to understand that there is hard work involved with getting a plot together.
People also need to understand that before you get the Garden of Eden you have to get all the rubbish out of the plot and get the soil up to scratch (Hard Work).
People need to know that they will have to maintain the site in general, mowing, strimming etc. (Hard Work)
People then have to start learning about the plants they ultimately wish to grow and eat and look after them and protect them from wildlife that want to eat them also.
People need to learn about efficient pest control if they want to end up with something on their plate, not sprinkle half a dozen eggshells over a ten rod plot.
The fact is that you don't see any of that on telly or in the magazines because that might put a few punters off and that wouldn't do anything for a Magazines circulation figures or a programmes audience rating. All you see is Monty putting a shop bought plug plant into some virgin multipurpose and saying  "Well, thats all there is to it, and in twelve weeks you will be in vegetable heaven"
We need more reality for the newcomers so that they can decide whether or not to take a plot on.

[bupster]

I think that most newbies realise there's work involved and few expect it to be easy, but you don't realise the extent of the work until you're doing it. Which is why we should support newcomers, not slag them off and belittle them because they're proud of having blisters or want to try a different way of growing things.

As for calling someone retarded because they suggest that helping learners is an improvement on venting contempt, I don't think that sort of abuse is ever warranted. Many of the users on this site have taken on plots in the last few years. Without the tolerance and kindness of others on our allotment sites, and on this site, we might have given up. The kind of "advice" offered by Albacore undermines everything that's worthwhile about allotmenting and about this forum.

[twinkletoes]

...but there is no need to be rude or dismissive.  I think that most people DO know it is will be/is hard work sometimes but it is encouragement that is required when we hit a low ebb not a slapdown.  You would not tell a child who is learning to ride his first bike without stabilisers and keeps falling over to put the stabilisers on because you'll obviously never be able to ride a bike otherwise.  You keep encouraging the child, that practice will make it easier....in fact as easy as riding a bike..... ::)  
twinkletoes

[Ishard]

Albacore sand does break up clay soil, I suggest you perhaps look this up before you tell me its only organic matter that can break down clay soil.

Both work well.

If a person cannot get humungous amounts of compost to work the soil as it is expensive then sand is a cheaper way. I also suggested this was followed by straw so gave the best of both advice.

Clay soil holds nutrients so I would not suggest adding further nutrients with manure as I would consider this a waste of money and manure, just utilise the nutrients already in the soil and sand allows that.
This ladys plot hasnt been worked for a long time so you can bet theres loads of nutrients in the soil

[Barnowl]

Sand does work but make sure it is sharp / builders sand.

Apparently composted bark (made from the fine leftovers from the chipping process) is a good additive, but I haven't seen this for sale anywhere.

"Now for the advantage. Clay soils are usually rich in plant nutrients. They also retain much of the fertilizers that you apply. This is because the soil moisture - which holds the nutrients to a degree - does not soak away, taking the nutrients with it. It may evaporate, but the nutrients stay put!"
[gardenseeker.com]

[Ishard]

Bark uses an awful lot of nitrogen, be careful if you use it on leafy veg.

[posie]

Hmmm, may well try some builders sand next time I get up lottie as half of it seems to be clay and the other half not.

[Ishard]

If you have a builders merchants that delivers its cheaper and easier to get them to drop a ton actually at your plot. Its when they put the sand in bags it gets expensive cos you pay for their work.  ;)

Just asked hubby, a ton of builders/sharp sand is 30 quid here.

Posie you can plant through the sand too, just allow the worms to do their bit and drag it down into the soil and you get less trouble with slugs and snails as they dont like the sand.

[Gazfoz]

Posie,

You want sharp sand not the red stuff or you may get cement :)
I read about this and the percieved wisdom is that sand is ok as a temporary fix but tends to get "lost" over time.

[Ishard]

Gazfox adding sand will allow the planting of spuds which you know breaks up clay soil very effectivly.  :)  Manure gets lost too you know  ;)

[Robert_Brenchley]

If there's a local garden contractor who's having to pay to dump dead leaves or grass cuttings at the tip, they'd probably be glad to let you have it and save the money. Either dig it in or mulch, use all you can, and keep going year by year. I find the texture of soil under a good layer of organic mulch is quite different, and far superior.

[albacore1854]

Albacore sand does break up clay soil, I suggest you perhaps look this up before you tell me its only organic matter that can break down clay soil.

Both work well.

If a person cannot get humungous amounts of compost to work the soil as it is expensive then sand is a cheaper way. I also suggested this was followed by straw so gave the best of both advice.

Clay soil holds nutrients so I would not suggest adding further nutrients with manure as I would consider this a waste of money and manure, just utilise the nutrients already in the soil and sand allows that.
This ladys plot hasnt been worked for a long time so you can bet theres loads of nutrients in the soil

My Chemistry isn't what it was, by organic I meant adding material to it, rather than covering it with polythene etc.But point taken.

My much criticised comment was raised out of frustration at an individual not understanding my point despite multiple attempts to explain it.I have apologised for that comment.

[Gazfoz]

Gazfox adding sand will allow the planting of spuds which you know breaks up clay soil very effectivly.  :)  Manure gets lost too you know  ;)

Actually Isarse,
Manure will allow the planting of spuds whilst adding nutrients to the soil that the spuds will love and the ridging and pulling out of the ground and scratching about for the leftovers will break up the clay soil very effectively Not the spuds themselves particularly.
But I know what you mean ;)

[sandra Riley]

Well !!!!!!!!!!! What a can of worms that opened!!  I am sorry I asked !!  We are fairly new but not daft and my OH is certainly not complaining about the amount of hard work he has put in, in fact he loves digging !  Better exercise than going to the gym in his opinion.  I just wanted hints and tips on breaking down the heavy clay and thank you all for the useful tips, I am however feeling a little awkward about some of the comments it has raised and I am sorry if anyone was offended by other peoples responses.   :-[

[betula]

Sandra ,please do not say sorry for something that was not in any way your fault.

You will find your own way of dealing with the plot ,It just takes a while to get it going the way you want it. :)

[sandra Riley]

Just felt really awful about some of the comments that the post raised I am a bit new to all this and I guess asking for advice is what this wonderful forum is all about but my goodnessI nearly choked when I read all the most recent comments, I couldn't help but feel like I shouldn't have asked, where did all that bitterness come from towards newbies etc !  thanks for posting back I was feeling dreadful
Sandra xx

[betula]

99% of the people on this site are more than happy to advise Newbies and delight in it for them when their plots take shape.

The remaining people can not accept new methods ,they can not cope if you want to do things different to them.There intolerance and bile is hard to beleave.If you want to dig then dig if you don't want to dig don't dig.

You will soon be on this site giving your own advice to people later down the line.

Enjoy your plot. :)

[Old bird]

Sandra

Good luck with your clay soil - we have all learned a lot from this thread and not entirely about gardening!!

You carry on asking questions as often as you like girl!  There are plenty of us old'uns and young'uns that are happy to offer advice, comments and ideas and normally they are sensible!

Hope you have a good weekend where you are!

Old Bird

;)

[froglets]

Hi Sandra,

Take what you want from the site and leave or laugh at the rest.  I for one am off to the lottie after work today to do some hard labour on untouched clay.  That'll teach me to wish for the other half of our plot to come to us.   ::)