organic, biological, natural, biodynamic??

[ina]

Recently I noticed a lot of talk on this board about whether or not to use chemicals, organic gardening, biological gardening, natural gardening etc. etc. Someone even mentioned that biological gardening is no longer biological when you use tap water and I guess that is correct.

It set me to thinking (very dangerous in my case) and trying to understand all the different terms. Now I found out I am not gardening biologically anymore because I help the seedlings allong with tap water.  I can no longer brag at work when I give my collegues my excess veggies that it was biologically grown, it sounded so good but I never really understood the term to be honest. (I used to use water out of the canal bordering the lottie until I found a dead duck in it. Later I was told that one time there was a dead sheep in it, a ways away where the farms are, I don't fancy that water on my veggies anymore.)

Anyway, it is winter and not all my free time is consumed by my lottie, so I started to look around for information about all the different terms used for gardening. I must say I am more confused now than I was before.  The link below I found interesting, not that it ended my confusion tho'.

http://www.spacountry.net.au/holmgren/Web%20PDF/08Natura.pdf

Who can shed light on the mish-mash of terms?

[ina]

[tim]

Tap water - that really got me the other day! Do we really suppose that all 'organic' farmers use rain or ground water. And has any chemical leached into the latter??

I grow with the family in mind. No poisons that could be eaten.  I put as much humus in as I can, but I do use artificial fertilisers. Do one's best within financial & physical limits.

Not trying to define the terms! = Tim

[Ceri]

although the article Ina highlighted (fascinating) gives a different definition to the term 'natural gardener', another thread used this term and I think this marries well to the way I want to garden.  I control as much as possible what goes in and on my garden - but I can't control what goes into the tap water I use etc.  Although to me 'natural' highlights what you don't do, rather than what you do - not using chemicals etc., but doesn't emphasis the non-chemical stuff many do which gives credence to those who think organic gardening is just shoving seeds in and leaving the rest to 'nature' - I wish!

[The gardener]

I think most of us here do as needs be.

I also think most of us are not commercially motivated so the loss of a plant or two because we didn't use such and such a chemical  is no big deal.  

This not to say that some of us wouldn't use chemicals if it proved absolutely necessary...........the main thing is........we have control of what is done, and what we use.  

Talking of 'tap water!' what about acid rain? air pollution? etc.

Did you know that the scientists have proved  that 'lack of smog' has affected roses.

It would seem that the chemicals in 'smog' kept  'black spot at bay.

[ina]

Still none the wiser about what these terms actually mean. Anybody?

[Piglet]

Ina, I was the one to declare myself a 'natural gardener' hence I will explain this one.

I was asking a question recently regarding dealing with whitefly as an organic gardener, which is how I would have previously described myself.  However, I was 'corrected' by the none organic gardeners as I could not say hand on heart 100% no chemicals went onto my plot i.e. in the manure or via tap water etc....  

I do not deliberately use any chemicals on my plot and will try anything to ensure it is a healthy environment therefore not needing to resort to chemicals i.e. companion planting, I try to encourage wildlife and believe that the beneficial insects i.e. the bees, hoverflies, ladybirds etc... will deal with the nasty insects.  There are occasions when you will get problems as i did with the whitefly but i dont feel it is always necessary to run for the nearest bottle of chemicals to deal with them as there maybe a non chemical alternative.  As a result feel I am working with mother nature - hence a natural gardener.  I am not introducing un-natural products into the garden.   I would rather a frog ate my slugs, than the slugs be poisoned by the horrid blue pellets, which look hideous.  

Hope this clears the definition of 'natural gardener'.

Piglet

[ina]

Hi Piglet, that's about how I garden. However, the frogs in the canal don't seem to go onto my lottie to eat slugs. I bought some 'organic' stuff to get rid of them, very expensive and I love the name: escar-go.

Anyway, I posted this question only to find out what the different terms really mean. Still, it is interesting to read people's ideas about different ways of dealing with gardening problems.

Talking with other allotmenteers at the lottie complex I realized that the ones that use the most chemicals are often the retired, ex-commercial gardeners. I guess they know most about the stuff.

In defence of chemicals, I don't think it's always per definition bad to use them if you know what you are doing. After all, without chemicals, life itself would not be possible (I read that somewhere). It's the chemical poisons, herbicides, insecticides etc. that worry me.

I guess the soap I use for spraying lice on the broadbeans is not natural but I still use it.

[gavin]

A few more labels for you, Ina.

My silliest buy in a long time - a treatise on the "bio-intensive method"; and then there's "no-till Fukuoka food-raising"; "French Intensive Techniques" etc etc etc.  There's pages of the stuff - I put it down to the levels of noon-day sun in California broil-brains myself.

Worse than a bunch of 1970's Independent Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire Trotskyists!  But give them their due - they sound a lot more interesting, almost sexed-up?

Not a great help in answering your question!

All best - Gavin

[ina]

I think I'll stick with the 'if-it-grows-it-grows-and-if-it-don't-it-don't' system of gardening.

[Piglet]

me too Ina,

[Beer_Belly]

I saw a small news article on a butchers that only sold Biodynamic meat - The interviewer asked what it was and the butcher described it in the same way as organic meat. He obviously didn't have a clue, he ummd and ermmd quite a bit.
Can anyone tell me what the difference is ?
Beers,
     -B_B-

[mysticmog]

Biodynamics focuses on healing the earth, rather than just not killing it anymore than we ever did...tis based on stuff Rudolf Steiner developed (humanist bloke, v interesting man).
Generally it pays attention to cosmic rhythms - planting by moon would come into it...

Tis really really fab n interesting....check out more info at

http://www.biodynamics.com/biodynamics.html

[allotment_chick]

I agree with Tim!  Couldn't put it better meself!  

If it must be defined, I'll call it a pragmatic outlook to organic principles (or the 'poop approach' for short!)  :D

AC x

[ina]

The poop approach it is! (and that's no bull....)

Interesting link Mistyc thanks.

[aquilegia]

*tried* to understand the article, but totally none the wiser.

I follow similar methods to Piglet's. I don't use chemicals or peat, I recycle everything (skip divers anonymous lifelong member!), encourage wildlife, learn not to mind when my plants get nimbled and roses are rusty. But I do use tap water as the previous owners placed the shed so close to the fence there's no room for guttering, but if hubby and I can move it, I'll get a butt.

My reasons really are that I don't like polluting the planet more than it is already, I don't want to kill off the friendly/helpful critters, I'd rather eat a few bugs that a load of chemicals and my garden is so small, the veggies would be polluted if I used them on the flowers, and mostly I'm too cheap to buy chemicals and too lazy to bother to find out which to use.

But what type of gardener you'd call me (other than a lazy one!), I have no idea.

[Muddy_Boots]

I think it comes down to the fact that we all like to allow nature to takes it's course and produce lovely stuff to eat or look at and don't feel too guilty about trying chemicals if site has serious problem.

Yin and yang, don't know but seems logical to me!  ;D ;D ;D  As you can see, philosophy not quite my strong point! ::)