the hoe/dig question....

[Ceri]

well its a question for me anyway!  I'd dug about 1/3 of my plot, duly picking out weeds, glass, brick etc etc as I went.  Very nice lottie man yesterday told me it would be easier and quicker to hoe the tops down to just under the surface, and when I come to dig/manure etc properly in Autumn the roots would come out then.  He said if I keep hoeing in the mean time it will kill a lot of the weed regrowth dead easy.  I must say I got loads more done, but is this effective?

[Ceri]

[teresa]

Hi he could have a point by auturm the weather should change with some rain makes digging easier manure on the top worms can give you a hand to dig bless them.
If you hoe the weeds wont get to look a mess also wont go to seed and you feel like your doing something. Teresa

[Ceri]

Thanks Teresa - I like this theory a lot because I can clear so much more in a session which makes me feel I've achieved more than a metre or so at a time! I'll go with it and see what happens.

[allotment_chick]

Hi Ceri - I think it all depends what your manure is like (if you get my meaning - sounds a bit personal!)

I'd be included to dig it and then keep the weeds down by hoeing it.  I do believe that recent research suggests that too much digging is bad for the soil structure (..and I'm glad to hear it).  Generally, I think manure should be well rotted before adding it, otherwise it can rob nitrogeon in the decomposition process.  

Mind you .... local knowledge can sometimes be better than received wisdom!

[Ceri]

I think perhaps I'll combine the two - dig when I'm feeling energetic, hoe when I'm not!!  There is a big pile of rotted straw/manure delivered to the site every now and again - there is some there at the moment, but its a bit all straw and little muck!  We have various stables around us - I think I'll go skanking!!  I was going to try and get some fresh as well to start off the compost heap on the site - would this work?

[allotment_chick]

Yeah - for sure!  I'd advise you to get as much as you can - strawy manure rots down to a lovely consistency (especially if you add it to the compost heap!)

I'll be shovelling muck, too, this weekend providing it doesn't rain.....

[Hugh_Jones]

hi Cerig.  As long as the weather stays fine what your lottie friend says is quite true.  However, if it turns to rain you will find that unless you have raked off all your hoed weeds they will simply reroot and you will effectively simply have transplanted them.  So hoe by all means, but rake off all the debris and put it in the compost bin.   If your manure is well rotted dig it in as soon as the soil has softened, but if it is strawy stack it and don`t use it until it is well rotted.

Allotment Chick has the right idea about over-frequent digging, although what she thinks is recent research was actually carried out at the Rothamstead Research Station over 50 years ago, and gardeners like me have been quoting it as the main argument against rotovators ever since.  If you work on a 4 year rotation basis you will find that once you have dug and cleaned the ground only a quarter of your lottie actually needs to have manure dug in each year, and as long as you don`t walk on the beds the remainder will manage with surface cultivation and spot weeding only until their turn in the rotation comes around.  That way your manurial residues will remain in the soil for 5 years or so, and the undisturbed worm tunnels under the surface will provide all the aeration and drainage the soil needs.

[Ceri]

thanks hugh - I've cleared the hoed land, composted some, but the dry thistles, grasses and all the other things with major seeds I gathered up and burnt tonight.  I've just read an article about too much digging being bad on the HDRA site - perhaps that's based on the research you mentioned.  I now have a (nearly) empty site so I think I will go with a bed system - I've discovered I like hoeing a lot more than I like digging!

[the_plotter]

i started a four year rotation this year and used chicken fertiliser for the first time on unmanured areas. our local woolworth sells it at £2.50 a bucket. i think its the best feed i've come across in years. as for overdigging i think if you add in enough compost or manure digging does no harm. its when you rotovate or dig bare soil a crust forms that cracks and hinders the germination of seed.
        the plotter
              p.s. dont complain about rotovating as i have just sold mega my honda rotovator.

[Hugh_Jones]

Sorry Plotter, but rotovator damage has nothing to do with crusting of bare soil.

Any form of humus added to the soil eventually oxidises away and becomes `lost`, and the speed at which it oxidises depends entirely on the amount of its exposure to the air.  Every time soil is turned over it admits air into the soil and increases the oxidisation, and the more air that is admitted, the faster the oxidisation.

Digging a plot once admits air at about the same rate as a chef slowly stirring a pan of soup.  A plough blade admits a similar amnount of air, but leaves a much larger surface of furrows exposed to the air.  A rotovator churns air into the soil like a food mixer churns air into whipping cream.

The Rothamsted experiments were based on annual digging, annual ploughing, and rotovation and showed that (if memory serves me right - it was a long time ago)with annual manual digging manurial residues remained for up to 5 years, with ploughing they remained for up to 3 years, with rotovation they were exhausted in 2 years

I appreciate that by continually adding more manure and compost one can combat the humus loss caused by rotovating, but, let`s face it, that`s about as logical as leaving the car engine running in the driveway just because there`s a petrol station next door.

[Ceri]

After I'd dug 1/3rd of the plot and hoed another 1/3rd as per previous comments, I was on the lotty last night and although as expected, weeds are already poking their naughty heads out of the soil, there were not appreciably more showing the the 'hoed only' half than the 'dug and handweeded' half.  A quarter of the work of digging with pretty much the same initial results - I go with the hoe!  However the last 1/3 hasn't been touched for at least 3 years I'm told and the soil is pretty solid so I don't think I'll get away with the no-dig approach in the first year anyway.

[allotment_chick]

Hi Ceri - perhaps you should adopt the 'cover it with black plastic approach' for the last third and then you don't have to hoe or dig (well at least until you are ready to!)  ;D

[Ozzy_aka_Pothead]

Yo Peeps

Nice thread and this will save me loads of time,  I am constantly bending down picking out what weed roots I can, but hoeing would seem easier, My first crop is gonna be potatoes,
I am going to use half of me 10 perches on em, so maybe that half I can just dig over and hoe it religiously (sownds like kerbcrawling at a convent) ;)...

I only dug about a quarter so far... bloke told me to use a fork, and for me it was much harder work, so gonna spade it good and proper tommorow evening.  Also signed up today for a city and guild gardening course.. I iz Hooked

cHeErS

oZzY %)

[allotment_chick]

Yo OzZy - good on you dude.  We'll know who to get advice from now!  What commitment!   :D

[Ozzy_aka_Pothead]

Yo AC

I iz ded excited about it, and to think I will be able to charge peeps and absolute fortune for doing their gardy ;)

If I gets lost with sum of the coursework then this site will come in handy,  my job reminded me today just how insecure it is, yearly contracts... crap pay
and contracts are up again in Nov.... so have to behave ;( no upsetting the suits, yes sir no sir 3 bags etc etc etc, feel like walking away but need the bread mahn ;)

gonna grab sum kip now

cHeErS

oZzY %)

xx

[merv]

Ho hum... ;)

I was very lazy and decided to have a dig free plot.  I slathered loads of manure all over and in the spring turned over only the row to be planted.  I just could not see why I should dig where I would be walking. :P

I did not trench anything at all. Pots was a trowel hole, pop in some chicken manure and then stick the potato in and cover.  Beans same but with well rotted muck.

Results fantastic and more time for tea, chat and smiling  benignly on my backbreakingly free plot.  :D