'Student' demo this afternoon

[SamLouise]

I don't agree with the whole, 'they've been lied to, they're upset so it's ok' nonsense.  I've been lied to about things I've found equally as upsetting but it's never made me want to go and vandalise other people's property.  Neither has it made me want to harm animals or beat someone black and blue.  Utter rot.  I'm not some fuddy duddy sitting here tutting at the younger generation (I'm not exactly past it myself, LOL) Good on those who felt the urge to get up, shout and be heard about what they believe in, lord knows we should have more of it, but I don't think for one minute that some of the behaviour of yesterday is excusable. Constructive demonstrations are one thing but the scenes of the past few weeks, particularly yesterday, are a disgrace. And, no, the scenes are not all down to non-students who came along to cause trouble. Now all the manpower and hours to fix and clean up the results of these demos - who's going to pay for that.....?

Cuts are being made everywhere.  It's brutal and there aren't many people who are going to escape the fallout from them.

[SamLouise]

[Digeroo]

I feel for the students.  Though obviously not the poor behaviour which are probably a very small minority.  I have also heard of students going for a peaceful protest but then being set on by the police. 

My daughter got a very poor deal at Uni: very few lectures and very few tutorials.  Very poor standards of teaching.  Very little support.  The students at least need to feel they are getting good value for money.  If large numbers of them do not go to Uni there are not enough jobs to go round and the unemployment benefit/housing benefit will be more than the increase in fees.   What is the point in that?

My daughter worked in a call centre after Uni, it really set her up.  She currently has a very good job 

What I want to know is who pays for the research done in Universities.  Should the students be expected to pay? 

Measures are going to be put in place for the poorest so they will be ok, it is those who are in the next group who will really struggle. 

I still think that the banks are not being asked to contribute enough and there needs to be a much more tough stance on tax avoidance schemes.  At the moment the richest people pay very little tax at all. 

[Mr Smith]

I don't feel for the students, why do you have to go to uni in the first place (just to toss it off and smoke a big fat one and then take a year out, mens bits), I can understand if it is a subject that needs a bit of explaining from a Don to get their brain matter round it, but media studies, performing arts, do me a favour, I know plenty of lads that went on to Tech colledge who are now successful and if these are the tow rags of tomorrow that we are going to put our trust in god help us,   

[Ninnyscrops.]

So what's the answer then?

Any graduates here willing to pay back a little of what they've earned since getting their degrees to help pay for the students of the future? I think not.

We're all paying for our parents' pensions after all.

I don't condone the non-peaceful part of the demonstration at all, total shame on them.

Ninny

[Digeroo]

I really think you have hit it on the head Ninnyscrops.  If we do not help the students now with their fees why will they want to pay for our pensions in the future.

[Karen Atkinson]

Mr Smith - what is your problem with Media Studies, Performing Arts, etc? Do you know what these programmes involve? Do you not think it is worth studying, for instance, the relationship between Public Relations and how television news is constructed in a particular way to present a certain version of events? Or, the ways in which China blocks access to the internet - or how, when you do a Google search, certain items crop up more than others - how this is related to political economy and the power of money? Do you not think educating our youngsters about this is worthwhile? To be media savvy in this day and age is fundamentally crucial. All their information is pretty much derived through the media these days - it is how young people live (and with Media Studies, computer use, radio, TV, mobile phone communication is covered), If we do not teach students the power of these, then we are guilty of leaving them behind in the fast-paced global world of communications. There is a widespread misperception of MS as consisting of 'just watching Eastnders'. This is not the case. Sophisticated and critical knowledge about how the media works is important today.

[Mr Smith]

Mr Smith - what is your problem with Media Studies, Performing Arts, etc? Do you know what these programmes involve? Do you not think it is worth studying, for instance, the relationship between Public Relations and how television news is constructed in a particular way to present a certain version of events? Or, the ways in which China blocks access to the internet - or how, when you do a Google search, certain items crop up more than others - how this is related to political economy and the power of money? Do you not think educating our youngsters about this is worthwhile? To be media savvy in this day and age is fundamentally crucial. All their information is pretty much derived through the media these days - it is how young people live (and with Media Studies, computer use, radio, TV, mobile phone communication is covered), If we do not teach students the power of these, then we are guilty of leaving them behind in the fast-paced global world of communications. There is a widespread misperception of MS as consisting of 'just watching Eastnders'. This is not the case. Sophisticated and critical knowledge about how the media works is important today.

No I don't think media studies or performing arts are subjects to be studied at uni, performing arts, get yourself on to X factor, media studies get a job on a local newspaper at seventeen and stop dossing about on the bloody country, ;)

[skintnbitter]

I have worked and still work with people who have been given jobs based on the fact that they have a uni degree.  However not one degree gained by any of these people has any relevance to the job they are employed to do.

I do understand that at the moment jobs are hard to come by, however these people were employed before the job crisis we are going through today.

I am with Mr Smith that some students are using Uni as an excuss to toss it off for a year or two, which in turn spoils it for the geniune students who need a degree which is relevant to their future carrer.

I did not go to Uni myself as I was brought up to go out and get a job.  Today I do have a good job and that has been through hard work on my part, through holding down a full time job and studying in my spare time for approx 6 years.

[PurpleHeather]

It is true that employers have been conned into thinking that graduates are better that those who have risen from the ranks and most of us have been in jobs where some  nutter with a degree has got a job over us and made a terrible mess of things then left the firm

Actually I got a good redundancy pay out from it but that is another story.

[Bill Door]

This almost feels like knowing the answer is 42 but not knowing or even understanding the question or when it was asked.

I honestly don't understand these fees or why Cable and co say they must be brought in.  Irrespective what "course" each student is on it seems to me that the "HMRC" customer is going to be forking out the cash until the individuals can stump up.  Everyone seems to be saying that they (students) will be better off even if they go over the minimum salary to start repaying.  So that means that probably many will never repay a penny.  This makes no sense to me as it is presented.  I suspect it makes no sense to the students that are doing finances.

So why are they upping the fees and leaving it to the institutions to charge basically what they like?  Who is going to ensure that there is a standard for tuition that must be equal all over the Country?  Where is the protection for the student (and ultimately all those "HMRC Customers") to ensure that the level of tuition is commensurate with the fees paid.

As for the demo well that will be resolved in the courts anyone found to be acting outside the law deserves what they get.


If we want peaceful demonstrations then we will have to rethink how they are organised and who should police it and who should pay for it.  This is something that will affect us all over the next decade at least.  I don't mean that the student fees will go on that long but i do believe we are in for more of this.

For those injured during the demo i wish them well.  For those involved in criminal acts I hope they are big enough to admit them and accept responsibility for their actions.

Bill

P.S.  I believe we all need students and the more the merrier.  The difficult bit is picking the little "nuggets"

[Mrs Gumboot]

This almost feels like knowing the answer is 42 but not knowing or even understanding the question or when it was asked.

I honestly don't understand these fees or why Cable and co say they must be brought in.  Irrespective what "course" each student is on it seems to me that the "HMRC" customer is going to be forking out the cash until the individuals can stump up.  Everyone seems to be saying that they (students) will be better off even if they go over the minimum salary to start repaying.  So that means that probably many will never repay a penny.  This makes no sense to me as it is presented.  I suspect it makes no sense to the students that are doing finances.

So why are they upping the fees and leaving it to the institutions to charge basically what they like?  Who is going to ensure that there is a standard for tuition that must be equal all over the Country?  Where is the protection for the student (and ultimately all those "HMRC Customers") to ensure that the level of tuition is commensurate with the fees paid.

As for the demo well that will be resolved in the courts anyone found to be acting outside the law deserves what they get.


If we want peaceful demonstrations then we will have to rethink how they are organised and who should police it and who should pay for it.  This is something that will affect us all over the next decade at least.  I don't mean that the student fees will go on that long but i do believe we are in for more of this.

For those injured during the demo i wish them well.  For those involved in criminal acts I hope they are big enough to admit them and accept responsibility for their actions.

Bill

P.S.  I believe we all need students and the more the merrier.  The difficult bit is picking the little "nuggets"

[saddad]

Irrespective of what constitutes a good degree or not if you have a policy that half of 18 years olds need a degree (if only to keep unemployment figures down by keeping them out of the job market for 3-7 years- including A level time) it will prove ridiculously expensive... that's why fees need to go up and students need to shoulder the debt... 30 years ago when only @10% went to Uni and were by extension "cleverer" we could afford to finance them differently...  :-\

[Grandma]

Wise words indeed, saddad.

[.]

  " Today I do have a good job and that has been through hard work on my part, through holding down a full time job and studying in my spare time for approx 6 years. "

  Skint and Bitter

[Froglegs]

Wise words indeed, saddad.

I will second that.

[Melbourne12]

Mr Smith - what is your problem with Media Studies, Performing Arts, etc? Do you know what these programmes involve? Do you not think it is worth studying, for instance, the relationship between Public Relations and how television news is constructed in a particular way to present a certain version of events? Or, the ways in which China blocks access to the internet - or how, when you do a Google search, certain items crop up more than others - how this is related to political economy and the power of money? Do you not think educating our youngsters about this is worthwhile? To be media savvy in this day and age is fundamentally crucial. All their information is pretty much derived through the media these days - it is how young people live (and with Media Studies, computer use, radio, TV, mobile phone communication is covered), If we do not teach students the power of these, then we are guilty of leaving them behind in the fast-paced global world of communications. There is a widespread misperception of MS as consisting of 'just watching Eastnders'. This is not the case. Sophisticated and critical knowledge about how the media works is important today.

That's training, not education.

[mat]

That's training, not education.

So training is not education???  ::)

[saddad]

Actually training is not education... but that's a whole philosphical area I'm not going to open up... the key to education is that it brings or leads (ducare) something from inside (e as in exit)... you can train a fruit tree but you can't train it to write poetry...  :-X

[grawrc]

Thought-provoking viewing!
http://vimeo.com/17725946

[tonybloke]

shows the police up for what they are, a bunch of THUGS, employed by the govt to beat up protesters, sad innit?