Patio design

[Paulines7]

We want to build a large patio (18ft x 18ft) in front of our new summerhouse which faces south and have already bought the paving slabs.  The area is large because we want to comfortably seat 8 people around a large table and also have room for the large barbecue, a small side table and the chimenea. 

We will have a 3ft trellis from the summerhouse to join the trellis which will go the whole length of the western boundary and there will be a Jasmin Arch leading into this area from the main pathway.  We will be using 3" x 3" fence posts with post support spikes as OH finds these easier to use than concreting everything in. 

I want to have some wires that go across from the trellis poles to some poles strategically placed along the eastern boundary.  I can then grow my newly acquired grape vine up above the patio area.  However, OH says that if the wire stretches it will sag and if it is really tight, the posts will eventually start to lean inwards. 

There is no way we can have support posts halfway across this 18ft expanse as they would be in the way of table and chairs.  If we use 2.4m (8ft) posts, I don't think it would matter too much if the wires sagged a little as it would be a good way above everyones heads.  What do you think?   

Am I being too optimistic that this would work and would 4"wide posts be a better proposition?  It would cost a lot more as not only are the posts and spikes more expensive but we would have to buy the Premier Pergola Arch which has a 4" construction rather than a 3".  I really would appreciate your views please.

[Paulines7]

[Tee Gee]

How about this?



I saw it a couple of years ago when on holiday!

[ACE]

How about this?



I saw it a couple of years ago when on holiday!

Just the job to put a bbq and a chimanea underneath. Also great for all the bugs and earywigs to drop into your meal when eating at the table.

[Paulines7]

I love it, but the timbers would have to be at least 18ft long and, even if I could buy them that long, they would no doubt cost a fortune. 

[Melbourne12]

We have a home-made 6m x 6m fruit cage on our allotment.  Even with 2.4m posts in Metpost supports, and a central post, wires tend to sag.  I would say that with the weight of the vine, an 18 foot wire will sag a lot, probably down to 6 foot or less.  You could go to 3m posts, which will help, but longer than that are difficult to source and expensive.

The only thing that occurs to me would be a rigid frame along the lines of a circus "big top", supported by wires under tension.  It would be in the form of a shallow cone, point upwards, and would bear a considerable load.  It wouldn't sag noticeably at all.

[Paulines7]

........The only thing that occurs to me would be a rigid frame along the lines of a circus "big top", supported by wires under tension.  It would be in the form of a shallow cone, point upwards, and would bear a considerable load.  It wouldn't sag noticeably at all.

I think that might be beyond our capabilities!  Perhaps I should just be content with growing the vine along one or two of the trellises and forget about anything going overhead.

Thanks to all for your suggestions.

[ACE]

It is going to take a few years anyway, so just grow across one corner to start with using a strong leader, then gradually extend with using a couple of laterals at a time. let them thicken up like leaders and repeat. All academic raeally as I have just re-read your post and the Jasmin would have swamped the place out by then.

[ancellsfarmer]

Is there room to put anchor points to the east of the eastern post row, at ground level.To these you could put "guy" wires with eye straining bolts or barrel strainers in line and correct the "droop" of the overhead wires, as if tuning a guitar.

[Paulines7]

...All academic really as I have just re-read your post and the Jasmin would have swamped the place out by then.

Ace, thanks for your reply.  I don't intend growing Jasmin there.  I have a large Jasmin growing elsewhere in the garden and it attracts a lot of tree bees (Bombus hypnorum) and these newcomers to my garden are not the most friendly of bees.  Jasmin is just the name of the arch.  See: http://www.buyfencingdirect.co.uk/garden-structures/arches/jasmine-garden-arch

Is there room to put anchor points to the east of the eastern post row, at ground level.To these you could put "guy" wires with eye straining bolts or barrel strainers in line and correct the "droop" of the overhead wires, as if tuning a guitar.

Thank you for that suggestion, ancellsfarmer.  There is a huge disused poultry unit belonging to us, about six to eight feet from the eastern boundary so putting anchor points on that may be an option.  I will have to chat to hubby about it!