Seed Saving Circle 2016?

[Jayb]

Huacatay apparently has it's uses for ridding an area of couch grass!

Other Uses
Dye;  Essential;  Herbicide;  Insecticide;  Repellent.

This plant is widely used in companion planting schemes[238]. Secretions from the roots of growing plants have an insecticidal effect on the soil, effective against nematodes and to some extent against keeled slugs. These secretions are produced about 3 - 4 months after sowing[200]. These root secretions also have a herbicidal effect, inhibiting the growth of certain plants growing nearby. It has been found effective against perennial weeds such as Ranunculus ficaria (Celandine), Aegopodium podagraria Ground elder), Glechoma hederacea (Ground ivy), Agropyron repens (Couch grass) and Convolvulus arvensis (Field bindweed)[200, 238]. An essential oil distilled from the leaves and flowering stems, harvested when the plant is forming seeds, is used as an insect repellent[46, 61]. It is also used in perfumery[238]. Dried plants can be hung indoors as an insect repellent[238].

http://www.pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Tagetes+minuta

[Jayb]

[galina]

There are easy and more difficult vegetables, herbs and fruit to save pure breeding seeds from.  Maybe it is a good time of year to share a few ideas?  I am looking at courgettes, pumpkins and squashes at the moment.  This includes melons and cucumbers, where the same principles apply.  Just their flowers are much smaller and more difficult to work with.  However, squashes are not really difficult, easily do-able with a little care. A project that is a step up from the self-pollinating, rarely crossing 'easy' vegetables like peas, tomatoes and French beans. 

For saving pure squash seeds, there are a few steps to consider.  Is the intended variety open pollinated (OP) or a hybrid (F1)?  We need OP varieties - if a seed packet does not say F1 hybrid, it is OP and if there is any doubt, google will usually confirm either way. 

The second consideration is the species of squash.  For example an orange Halloween pumpkin will happily cross with a courgette or with an acorn squash, but not with a butternut squash.  They are in the same species, cucurbita pepo.  If we live in isolation on a remote farm, we could, in principle, grow a Halloween pumpkin (c pepo), a butternut (c moschata), an Uchiki Kuri (c maxima) and a Shark Fin's melon (c ficifolia) all together in the same bed.  And they would not cross with each other.  Few of us have such remote gardens and therefore we need to 'isolate and handpollinate' our squash flowers to produce pure breeding seeds.

Say we want to save pure seeds from a c pepo Halloween pumpkin.  If we do nothing, bees will fly in and pollinate our flowers with any other c. pepo pollen that is going around.  In an allotment situation there could be hundreds of c pepo flowers open at the same time and the bee that pollinates our Halloween pumpkin has been to most of them.  If the halloween pumpkin was pollinated with the courgette ten plots away, its fruit will still be a halloween pumpkin, but its seed will be crossed and grow into something rather odd next year.

All squashes have male and female flowers, the females have an embryo fruit below the flower.  What we can do is prevent a female flower and a male flower at the same stage of development from opening - we 'isolate' them.  Bees have no access to isolated flowers.  We do this the evening before the flowers would open naturally.  When they are full size, unopened yellow buds. The following day, we pick off the male flower of our Halloween pumpkin and bring it to the female Halloween pumpkin flower.  It can be a male flower from the same or from a different plant of Halloween pumpkin if we are growing several. We remove the tape, rubber band or tie (whatever we used to keep the flower closed) from the male flower and from the female.  They should spring open.  The pollen grains are very visible inside the male flower.  We then remove the petals from the male flower and 'paint' the pollen gently onto the orange bits (stigma) inside the female flower.  After this hand pollination with the correct pollen, we close the female flower again to stop bees ruining our work with 'wrong' pollen.  At this stage I mark the female flower with a loose bit of string below the embryo fruit. 

Fingers crossed the hand pollination has taken and our embryo fruit is swelling.  This is quite obvious within days.  The female flower will wither within a few days and drop off, but the growing fruit now has pure-breeding seeds inside it and we have produced seeds that will give us true breeding Halloween pumpkin for next year. 

There are several good pictorial guides and how-tos on www:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1918281/hand-pollination-of-sq
http://www.realseeds.co.uk/courgettes.html
(at the bottom of the page)
http://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/gardens-gardening/your-garden/help-for-the-home-gardener/advice-tips-resources/visual-guides/pollination-of-squash-and-pumpkins.aspx
This website shows all aspects of handpollinating very clearly, but they have not isolated the flowers, which is important for saving pure seeds.  But the mechanics of the handpollinating process are illustrated very well. 

I know that several other members here are experienced with isolating and hand pollinating squashes and can answer questions and add their experiences. 

[galina]

Jayb, thank you for the additional information.  Already so much to look forward too.  Grow little seedlings - do your stuff please 

[Silverleaf]

I'm sure I read recently that maxima will sometimes hybridise with moschata...

[galina]

I'm sure I read recently that maxima will sometimes hybridise with moschata...

In lab conditions.  In garden conditions very rarely - it is a bit like French beans and Runner beans that can cross, but it happens so rarely, it can be ignored.  People who have deliberately crossed maxima and moschata report very low seed count if any at all and even lower germination in the F1 generation.  Most fruit aborted and so on. 

And as very few people have isolated growing conditions where they don't need to consider squash crossing, we must assume that we need to hand pollinate in any case. Which makes it a non-problem entirely.

I hoped to show that isolating/hand-pollinating squashes for true breeding seed is very achievable for everybody. 

[Silverleaf]

I'm sure I read recently that maxima will sometimes hybridise with moschata...

In lab conditions.  In garden conditions very rarely - it is a bit like French beans and Runner beans that can cross, but it happens so rarely, it can be ignored.  People who have deliberately crossed maxima and moschata report very low seed count if any at all and even lower germination in the F1 generation.  Most fruit aborted and so on. 

And as very few people have isolated growing conditions where they don't need to consider squash crossing, we must assume that we need to hand pollinate in any case. Which makes it a non-problem entirely.

I hoped to show that isolating/hand-pollinating squashes for true breeding seed is very achievable for everybody. 

Ah, this is where I saw it. http://alanbishop.proboards.com/thread/8038/weird-squash-phenotypes

It should be pretty easy to tell if you've got an accidental cross anyway, because the hybrids will look different to the parents, and you can tell by the leaves on the young plants.

But yeah, definitely taping up flowers and hand pollinating is the way forward if you want pure seeds.

I might even have a go myself some time! :P

[Jayb]

Sunloving has just signed up for the Circle 

Who I'm sure will be along before long to share her plans. 

[markfield rover]

Nearly a 1000 looks does this mean we will go sticky soon? Bought pink propagators from Tiger for my special seeds.

[markfield rover]

I'll write out a 100 times must read things properly ....already sticky doh!

[Jayb]

Nearly a 1000 looks does this mean we will go sticky soon? Bought pink propagators from Tiger for my special seeds.

1089 this morning!
I only stickied it a short while back so easy to have missed and this year I've left the 2015 thread stuck too so it'll be easier to add grow out information or queries.

[sunloving]

Hi all, well I've been on the forum 5 yrs but only really grew the basics, now I have just under an acre and a 40 ft tunnel I think I might be able to do better.

So I'm joining you but only through fingers covering my eyes in trepidation.


I'm bulking up some things I was given by goodlife , pink flowered peas Alaskan early peas , load buster broad beans and a purple climbing bean, I'm growing some of brown envelopes open pollinated sweet corn and jelly melon and have a few other things I'm trialing such as the cinnamon basil. Jeannine is kindly sending some giant toms to so hopefully by the end of the season there will be at least one or two things worth sharing.

I also grow lots of flowers from seed and wondered if we've swamped things like skyline sunflowers, or colour selected basics ?
I'm setting up in a small business to sell fresh and dried flowers and will be doing a spot of selection of good vase life and colour flowers for instance.


Well fingers crossed I can be a contributor and that my new growing conditions make for lots of seed fro share.

Exciting! X sun loving

Sunloving has just signed up for the Circle 

Who I'm sure will be along before long to share her plans. 

[Jeannine]

Is anyone interested in Winnie the Pooh peppers, I have some on the way and I could try and grow them for you if anyone is interested, I can keep them pure.

I am reluctant to join the circle as such as I am not too reliable these days but I don't mind chipping in with some seeds if I get them and they are wanted .

I shall also be growing  my Mayoral Blue squash that is very rare. I got it straight from Australia where it was grown by the mayor of  NSW, he wouldn't share the seeds but later on he died and  a few got out, I got them from a friend of his relative. I have shared them with Tania of Tatianas Tomatoes (see her site) and she has grown them on and I did send a few seeds over a couple of years ago to the UK.

Anyway, I am not in a position to offer to grow much more other than tomatoes which I am growing a lot of but I suspect that you are all Ok with those. I can post a list if you wish.

I don't really  need seeds but would like to contribute if I am able.

XX Jeannine

[galina]

Sunloving and Jeannine, all sounds good.  Mayoral Blue - wow now that's rare.  Yes please and don't worry about being reliable, we are all in the same situation.  And if it isn't us personally, it's some or other garden gremlin.

With the Erfurt winter radish, I hope to be growing 2 French beans, one of them may (or may not) be similar to the Italian bean you are looking for Jeannine.  In fact, I had a packet put aside with your name on, but that was before your move and then you went away for a bit, then changed address - long story short - why don't I grow them for the circle, then we can all try them and you finally get them to try also.  They are called Breglia's Romano and they are fab.

Still trying for the one that got away last year bean Jack's Blue and Green and no doubt there will be a few more things.  Actually there was another French Bean from Chriscross that I really want to add to the circle, as it is so unusual, but I'll stop sticking my neck out and wait which one produces loads of seeds.  I am trying for winter squash (good summer for lots of seeds please) Todo el An~o, which came from RealSeeds when they were still in Spain and possibly dwarf pea Norli.  In the end as always, I will see what produces lots of seeds.  Could be something entirely different     

[Jeannine]

 Thanks Jay, that will gvie me something to strive for this year.. I will do my best. I will post the tomato list too as there may be something there.

XX Jeannine

[Silverleaf]

Hard to know what I'll be contributing, of course it very much depends on how everything grows!

I might actually manage Telephone and Champion of England peas this year, and it's likely I'll have TPS again too, maybe tomatoes. And since I'm going to grow some plants in straw again, I'll almost certainly have barley again if anyone wants it! ;)

[Jeannine]

 This my tomato list. well the OP ones anyway.

Anmore Dewdrop, a dehybridised Tumbler
Anmore Treasures          "               '   ( one is pink and one is red)
Ildi
Rebecca Sebastian's Ball Bag .. giant
Kootenai
Kalinka
Islandaise
Shirleo OP.. dehybridised Shirley
Hoy
New Yorker
Virginia Sweets
Whippersnapper
Tigerella
Cowlicks Brandywine
Mega Marv... giant
Bajaja
Opalka
Blueberry
Japanese Black Trifele
Tommy Toe


the following ate tinies
Tiiny Toes and Tiniest Toes
Polyarnye
Floragold Basket
Micro Gemma
Micro Tina
Micro Tom have not germinated yet but they still might.
Chibikko
Boets
Mohammed
Ditmarsher
Hahm's Helbe Topftomate

I think that is it for the open pollinated ones, nothing too exciting but I needed to replenish these seeds .There are a couple in there for giant tomato growing


Oh and I have a Thai dragon chili pepper but it will be isolated in another place as I don't want it to heat up Winnie the Pooh.

I might do a melon , if so and if they germinate it will be Hero of Lockinge.

XX Jeannine

[Jayb]

Bought pink propagators from Tiger for my special seeds.

Picture pretty please, what's Tiger?

[Jayb]

Hi all, well I've been on the forum 5 yrs but only really grew the basics, now I have just under an acre and a 40 ft tunnel I think I might be able to do better.

So I'm joining you but only through fingers covering my eyes in trepidation.


I'm bulking up some things I was given by goodlife , pink flowered peas Alaskan early peas , load buster broad beans and a purple climbing bean, I'm growing some of brown envelopes open pollinated sweet corn and jelly melon and have a few other things I'm trialing such as the cinnamon basil. Jeannine is kindly sending some giant toms to so hopefully by the end of the season there will be at least one or two things worth sharing.

I also grow lots of flowers from seed and wondered if we've swamped things like skyline sunflowers, or colour selected basics ?
I'm setting up in a small business to sell fresh and dried flowers and will be doing a spot of selection of good vase life and colour flowers for instance.


Well fingers crossed I can be a contributor and that my new growing conditions make for lots of seed fro share.

Exciting! X sun loving

You'll be fine, don't worry the group is very flexible as to what is shared, it kind of morphs and develops as the season progresses   
Ideally varieties shared should in some form be edible or add to the nutrition or protection of other crops grown, saying that we have had a few non edibles over the years.

Good luck with your business, it sounds wonderful, what a way to work, with flowers 

Flower circle perhaps?

[Jayb]

Is anyone interested in Winnie the Pooh peppers, I have some on the way and I could try and grow them for you if anyone is interested, I can keep them pure.

I am reluctant to join the circle as such as I am not too reliable these days but I don't mind chipping in with some seeds if I get them and they are wanted .

I shall also be growing  my Mayoral Blue squash that is very rare. I got it straight from Australia where it was grown by the mayor of  NSW, he wouldn't share the seeds but later on he died and  a few got out, I got them from a friend of his relative. I have shared them with Tania of Tatianas Tomatoes (see her site) and she has grown them on and I did send a few seeds over a couple of years ago to the UK.

Anyway, I am not in a position to offer to grow much more other than tomatoes which I am growing a lot of but I suspect that you are all Ok with those. I can post a list if you wish.

I don't really  need seeds but would like to contribute if I am able.

XX Jeannine

Winnie the Pooh sound irresistible (so loved the books) 

I'd say join in and enjoy, nothing is a guaranteed and if at the end things don't go to plan, then that is the way of things. I usually manage to grow and save crops, it's keeping some energy and wellness for autumn/winter months I struggle badly with.

I grew a couple of Mayoral Blue last year (seeds were from Tatiana's) I only ended up with one or two fruits and I didn't manage to hand pollinate any fruits, but they do look lovely. It was a bad year for squash, I think they would do so much better had the summer been half tidy (good).

Tomatoes always seem well received in the group and because the seeds are viable for a number of years they are an ideal share. Plus I'm sure you will be growing some very interesting and hard to come by varieties, what more can a tomato lover want!

[Jayb]

This my tomato list. well the OP ones anyway.

Anmore Dewdrop, a dehybridised Tumbler
Anmore Treasures          "               '   ( one is pink and one is red)
Ildi
Rebecca Sebastian's Ball Bag .. giant
Kootenai
Kalinka
Islandaise
Shirleo OP.. dehybridised Shirley
Hoy
New Yorker
Virginia Sweets
Whippersnapper
Tigerella
Cowlicks Brandywine
Mega Marv... giant
Bajaja
Opalka
Blueberry
Japanese Black Trifele
Tommy Toe


the following ate tinies
Tiiny Toes and Tiniest Toes
Polyarnye
Floragold Basket
Micro Gemma
Micro Tina
Micro Tom have not germinated yet but they still might.
Chibikko
Boets
Mohammed
Ditmarsher
Hahm's Helbe Topftomate

I think that is it for the open pollinated ones, nothing too exciting but I needed to replenish these seeds .There are a couple in there for giant tomato growing


Oh and I have a Thai dragon chili pepper but it will be isolated in another place as I don't want it to heat up Winnie the Pooh.

I might do a melon , if so and if they germinate it will be Hero of Lockinge.

XX Jeannine

Smashing list Jeannine 

I'm sure I have some Micro Tom seeds if yours don't pop through.