Seed Saving Circle 2024

[galina]

I guess the peat based fen soil has more water holding abilities perhaps?  And celery is a water loving crop, especially if we want it to be fat and juicy.  Celeriac too can never be watered too much, to produce big heads.

I guess a thickish grass mulch to keep the soil damp might help too.  But I have never tried that, just really thinking aloud how to make my celery thicker, juicier and my celeriacs bigger. 

[galina]

[Vetivert]

Hi JanG, is the lettuce Brune d'Hiver a cos or butterhead?

It's a butterhead. I'm hoping it's true. Having grown from my saved seed myself, I just have a little doubt. It should be a butterhead with a slightly red-brown tinge to the outer leaves.

I have seen it described as a Batavia lettuce.  It is a butterhead, but with crunchier leaves than a 'soft' butterhead. I have seen it listed as a cos too, but this really is not justified when you think of a typical cos, like Lobjoits. 

Sounds wonderful! Can't wait to taste, thank you.

[JanG]

I wonder whether anyone else has begun to sow seeds yet? I get a lot of pleasure from the first sowings.

I had an interesting experience with @juliev's Czech Early aubergine seeds from 2023.They disappointingly failed to germinate last year. So this year I gave them another try on damp kitchen paper and had 100% germination! Perhaps some seed is more viable after a resting period. Some of course is much better fresh. Seeds never cease to amaze with their varied germination habits. But thank you for several good strong young plants @juliev.

I sowed @vetivert's sweet pea, Valentine, in early January (appropriate to mention today!) and the plants are now about four inches tall and at that stage where it's recommended to pinch out the tips, a job for today perhaps.

I've sown @vetivert's Chinese Pink celery which is just beginning to show on the compost surface. I guess it needs to be under glass or plastic at this stage but the seedlings are pretty hardy it seems. Tiny and slow to develop. 

Otherwise it's time in my schedule to start thinking about sowing some peas. I sowed @juliev's My Bound's bean pea yesterday. I've classified it in the database as a shelling pea rather than a soup pea. HSL describe it as having a nutty flavour reminiscent of broad beans so I'm interested to try it fresh as well as dried. The peas themselves are certainly huge. More pea sowing today, hopefully.

Happy sowing this season, everyone!

[galina]

A fruit day according to the moon sowing calendar, so absolutely perfect for those early peas.  Yes, Mr Bound's Pea Bean, to give it its full name, is one of the stars of the non sweat peas, great in stews as an alternative to dried, reconstituted beans, as mushy peas or hummus. Pea Bean, because its seeds are as large as a field bean, well nearly so.  A nice tall variety. 

Soup peas are really no different from shelling peas as they also have inedible pods, but there are subtle differences.  The classic shelling pea is white flowered and has sweet tasting, juicy peas inside.  What is also knows as 'garden peas', the pea type found in the frozen foods section of supermarkets with the Captain's logo.  Kelvedon Wonder, Onward and Telephone spring to mind as varieties. 

Soup peas are generally less sweet and more starchy.  Still perfect to eat shelled as green peas, but not with that same sweetness that tempts the gardener to shell and nosh them raw, right there and then in the garden. 

Hope all our seeds will spring into life readily and will grow into beautiful and productive plants before long.  I wonder what it is about aubergines that makes them so difficult to germinate.  I had failures too earlier this year and will be using the paper towel method for my next attempt.  Did they get too wet? I wonder. 

Thank you Jan, happy sowing and good germination for you also. 

[JanG]

Thanks, Galina, for this interesting clarifying of the role of soup peas as not just for soup. It led to a train of thought in my mind about the relative sweetness of shelling peas. I suppose it would theoretically be possible to use the brix scale on shelled peas. As I'm rather keen on databases, probably to try to sort my otherwise often vague mind, I'm thinking I could subdivide my shelling pea description into sweet shelling pea and non-sweet shelling pea. But I suppose there are degrees in between.
And anyway, I'm getting rather over-geeky here! And of course the term soup pea is useful already for indicating non-sweet shelling pea.

[galina]

For your 'inner geek', there is even a mangetout pea that is non sweet, called Biskopens gråärt with its interesting red seeds and edible pods.

Yes there are probably degrees of sweetness.  However to what degree this also depends on sunshine hours during pod ripening, like the sweetness of fruit which is less in a lasting cloudy spell and higher in a really sunny spell, would also be interesting.  Maybe even the stage at which the little peas inside are being harvested, ie shelled as petit pois equals sweeter than harvested as garden peas.

Most people use Biskopens as a dry pea, but it is really nice as a mangetout with already developed seeds inside.  A bit like the pea equivalent of Appalachian beans.  As our A4A seed circle donor, Ian Pearson, describes "Attractive picked as small pods and sliced diagonally in salads, showing off the baby red/pink peas within."  https://seedsaverscircle.org/seed-circle/seed-parcel-2013-2/

[juliev]

I'm so glad the aubergines germinated for you JanG!
They are the hardest crop for me to germinate.    Last year, I ended up getting rid of an entire half tray into a bag with used compost (to mulch etc). A few week later, they were growing in the bag!

I have started some onions (my first ever saved seeds and they germinated well) and aubergines/peppers/chilli peppers. I tried germinating them on kitchen paper in a tub on the propagator but it keeps drying out. I'm going to redo them...

It will be time for broad beans and peas soon. (and check what I could contribute to the circle this year)

[galina]

I sent Jang a private message this morning, but I have also finally been successful with aubergine germination. Both my last batch sowing into little pots in the propagator and also the batch which I started in kitchen paper as advised by Jang.  They can be so tricky. 

For my second sowing I did not water the tops of the pots at all.  They stand on capillary matting and get their moisture from below inside the heated propagator.  I usually give all pots a gently watering in to get them going. Maybe aubergines really don't like that.  But it works just fine for tomatoes, peppers and squash. 

Interesting that the seeds in your discarded compost sprouted after all Juliev.  So it may well be worth holding on to that first set of little aubergine pots in the propagator for a while longer, despite the second sowing, which was weeks later, having been successful.  Thanks for the advice.   

[JanG]

For your 'inner geek', there is even a mangetout pea that is non sweet, called Biskopens gråärt with its interesting red seeds and edible pods.

Yes there are probably degrees of sweetness.  However to what degree this also depends on sunshine hours during pod ripening, like the sweetness of fruit which is less in a lasting cloudy spell and higher in a really sunny spell, would also be interesting.  Maybe even the stage at which the little peas inside are being harvested, ie shelled as petit pois equals sweeter than harvested as garden peas.

Most people use Biskopens as a dry pea, but it is really nice as a mangetout with already developed seeds inside.  A bit like the pea equivalent of Appalachian beans.  As our A4A seed circle donor, Ian Pearson, describes "Attractive picked as small pods and sliced diagonally in salads, showing off the baby red/pink peas within."  https://seedsaverscircle.org/seed-circle/seed-parcel-2013-2/

Thank you for these further thoughts on relative sweetness and the sunshine factor. Much to have in mind and observe here.

I was also very interested in your comments about Biskopens. I grew it years ago from seed from a rather unreliable seed swap and only used it as a dried pea. I love the possibility of making more of its red seeds by using it as a mangetout. I thought I had finished sowing peas for the moment but I think Biskopens gråärt, with its challenging accents, is beckoning as an addition to my plans!

[JanG]

I'm so glad the aubergines germinated for you JanG!
They are the hardest crop for me to germinate.    Last year, I ended up getting rid of an entire half tray into a bag with used compost (to mulch etc). A few week later, they were growing in the bag!

I haven't had too much trouble germinating aubergine seeds, compared with, say, peppers which can also seem a bit wayward. I'd assumed it was heat which is the determining factor but from what you say, you're using a propagator. But I'm delighted with the 100% germination from your Czech Early. But six plants is rather a lot to accommodate. Having too many aubergine plants is a new experience!

[JanG]

I have started some onions (my first ever saved seeds and they germinated well) and aubergines/peppers/chilli peppers. I tried germinating them on kitchen paper in a tub on the propagator but it keeps drying out. I'm going to redo them...

It will be time for broad beans and peas soon. (and check what I could contribute to the circle this year)

Great to have your own onion seeds, especially as onion seed needs to be quite fresh. I've had some disappointing germination this year and have resown to get more.

I also like the damp kitchen towel method especially with seed which might be past it. I think if you have a really airtight plastic box you won't get the same drying out problems. Good luck with your resowing.

Broad beans for me are an early crop. I started mine last month. I guess I'm just impatient to get going but they are pretty hardy. I'm delighted that you have the seed circle in mind! It's a pity broad beans are somewhat promiscuous and, in my experience, it's not very easy to cover the flowers very effectively. I suppose the best answer is to be self-disciplined and grow only one variety but that's a tough discipline to take on!

[galina]

You can't have too many aubergines Jang.  Ever!  Cooking small cubes with onion, slices of courgette and tomato plus oregano, thyme, then freezing in blocks,is a lovely addition to the winter kitchen. And it does not deteriorate in flavour from frozen compared to the fresh product.  And uses up glut vegetables.  You can add peppers too if you have too many.  But it is the aubergine that gives it its body.  Making space for six plants is definitely worth it. 

[JanG]

I love your cooking suggestion. Does the cooked combination make a fairly wet mixture for freezing?  I imagine the tomatoes cook down into a bit of a sauce but that's overcooking wouldn't be good.

You're right about the desirability of aubergines but of course they jockey for undercover space. And it leaves out of count the fact that I have a few other varieties on the go too. 🤪

[juliev]

Most of the aubergine/peppers/chillies were nice and plump so I sowed them in compost and back in the propagator. The varieties that had started to sprout were fried so I resowed those completely. Fingers crossed...

I tried to bag/cover some of the broad bean plants last year: utter fail for me... a mix of poor pod set, pests and diseases while the uncovered plants looked lush. I've decided to go with a population mix and grow them in clumps, separating them as much as I can (dark seeds, red/pink seeds, crimson flowers, maybe separate white and green seeds and the last group, free for all!). I like the diversity too much 

re onion seeds: I'm so glad I no longer have to rely on bought seeds for certain crops! The number of onions, leeks and parsnips that never germinated...

[galina]

Yes indeed.  I had very little germination from one of my varieties from commercial seeds. The Zebrune large shallots, but they were a couple of years old, maybe that was the problem. The Ailsa Craig germinated fine.  Not too brilliant germination from the shallots from seeds either, but at least we don't need many plants as they will get multiplied vegetatively in the main going forward. Great that you produced your own seeds Juliev with much better germination results. Hope the little seedlings will thrive. 

Jang, not overcook no, but definintely soft lumpy and slightly liquid.  We leave the tomato skins on for a bit of  texture or fibre, but this is of course preference.  It is all soft, but not completely fallen apart, with as you said, a nice bit of liquid from the tomatoes.  I start by gently frying off the onions, aubergines, then sliced courgettes (which also releases moisture), then add cut up tomatoes or halved cherries and last any herbs and spices.  Totally undemanding 'recipe' regarding relative quantities.  The usual fast food containers with tight lids are excellent for freezing.  Once they are frozen blocks, you can store them without the containers in freezer bags, if you like.  The proper recipe is called Ratatouille, but it is very flexible.  As is its final use.  You can add a big handful of cooked beans for a substantial side dish or use it instead of pasta sauce.   



 

[JanG]

Most of the aubergine/peppers/chillies were nice and plump so I sowed them in compost and back in the propagator. The varieties that had started to sprout were fried so I resowed those completely. Fingers crossed...

I tried to bag/cover some of the broad bean plants last year: utter fail for me... a mix of poor pod set, pests and diseases while the uncovered plants looked lush. I've decided to go with a population mix and grow them in clumps, separating them as much as I can (dark seeds, red/pink seeds, crimson flowers, maybe separate white and green seeds and the last group, free for all!). I like the diversity too much 

re onion seeds: I'm so glad I no longer have to rely on bought seeds for certain crops! The number of onions, leeks and parsnips that never germinated...

I've often saved leek seeds but for some reason haven't tended to let onions carry on to flowering. You've inspired me to have a go this next season.

Your broad bean bagging experiences sound much like mine. Another problem I've had is that the plant carries on growing so any covers I've carefully made, even resorting to a sewing machine, have turned out to lift from the ground. But yes, less healthy development under the covers is very disconcerting too.

I hope you get reassuring signs of life from your aubergine and pepper seeds any day now.

[galina]

Our friends brought my circle seeds.  What lovely treasures.  Thank you everybody.  What a special day.   

[JanG]

You've had a long wait but great that you've received them now. And thank you to your friends for keeping them safely for you.