Allotments 4 All

Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: davholla on August 08, 2007, 21:52:02

Title: Apples trees dying
Post by: davholla on August 08, 2007, 21:52:02
I have 2 new M27 apple trees (planted in March) they are pixie and Ashmead's Kernel. 
They are planted in pots and seem to have an insect or fungal disease any ideas ?
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on August 08, 2007, 22:03:42
What are the symptoms?
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: saddad on August 09, 2007, 07:25:49
Any chance of pictures?
:-\
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: davholla on August 09, 2007, 08:49:54
How do I upload pictures ?

I think they are leaf miners, the trunk looks ok but most leaves are mottled, some with typical leaf miner marks eg lines etc.
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: Palustris on August 09, 2007, 09:24:28
First of all, the leaf miners whilst unsightly will not actually kill the trees. They are also very difficult to eraditcate too since they are protected by the leaf from any insecticide except a systemic one.
What colour is the mottling? There are various fungal things which cause leaf discolouration, most of them again are more unsightly than lethal. Spray with a systemic fungicide if you have no fruit yet, or with copper sulphate if you wish to be reasonably organic. OR ignore the mottling, give the trees a good feed with a general purpose fertiliser like Miracle Grow or Seaweed extract and collect up the leaves and burn them as they fall.
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: davholla on August 09, 2007, 09:40:51
Thanks for that last night my mum told me they were dying and I was so worried.
I am not sure what colour the mottling is I am colour blind but I will get someone to check.

Will the leaf miners harm the tree ?
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: davholla on August 09, 2007, 15:01:36
My wife said that there are small insects like grasshoppers which are clear green almost white.  I guess these are frog hoppers
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: davholla on August 10, 2007, 15:49:36
Any ideas ?  I don't think it is so bad
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: davholla on August 13, 2007, 10:57:36
One of the trees could fit into my greenhouse would that help ?
The trees were in shade and now I have put them in the sun would that help ?
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: saddad on August 13, 2007, 11:04:43
Personally I wouldn't put them in a greenhouse or direct sun...
:-\
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: Deb P on August 13, 2007, 11:07:54
If they are in pots, make sure you are watering them enough...they could be getting a bit stressed which makes them prone to diseases. Mildew is common if they have been in the shade too. You could try giving them a liquid seaweed feed, that helps boost the plants resistance to pests and diseases and perk them up generally.
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: davholla on August 13, 2007, 11:43:10
Thanks a lot for that.  I don't think I have been watering them enough - that will change now and the seaweed extract will be given tonight.
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: davholla on August 13, 2007, 16:29:23
Quote from: saddad on August 13, 2007, 11:04:43
Personally I wouldn't put them in a greenhouse or direct sun...
:-\
Why not ?
If they were in the ground they would be in direct sun.
The greenhouse is very warm and humid - wouldn't that be good for them ???
I don't know much about this hence my questions which are not critiscism.
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: Deb P on August 14, 2007, 08:50:38
 Apple trees do not need to be grown under cover, they are perfectly hardy (able to survive British winters). The extra warmth will just mean they will dry out even more quickly in their pots (same in direct sunshine) because they will never get any rain on them, and become even more prone to fungal diseases.
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: saddad on August 14, 2007, 11:38:50
Thanks Deb... Was the site down @ 8:00 when I looked in earlier?
It wouldn't load for me...
???
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: Deb P on August 14, 2007, 18:35:38
I had trouble last night, couldn't get on the site until this morning when it loaded ok for me about 8.30.. :-\
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: saddad on August 14, 2007, 18:42:44
Must have been before then, then! That DVD is ready if you are down the next couple of nights.. Meeting will be on last wed as originally said!
;D
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: davholla on August 22, 2007, 21:07:20
(http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/8873/pict1062mj2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
By davholla (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/davholla)
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: jennym on August 23, 2007, 01:26:38
Those leaves don't look good, do they? It's hard to say for certain from a picture, but I think this is likely to be an attack by some sort of moth or mite, doesn't look like leaf miner to me. But then it is possible for the plant to be attacked by more than one pest at a time!
If it's mite, you can control this sort of damage early in the season by picking off affected leaves and destroying them, keep an eye out for further damage as new leaves grow and pick off any of these that get affected. Make sure that when the leaves fall you collect them up and destroy them.
You could try spraying with a product containing thiacloprid, such as Provado Ultimate Bug Killer. The pest is unlikely to actually kill your tree but if the leaves aren't able to do the job of photosynthesis due to damage, then the pest will eventually weaken it badly.
For mites, there isn't any currently approved product for amateur gardeners to use.
I do agree with the previous comments on watering, and hope the pots you have are large, the roots of apple trees, even dwarfing types need plenty of room and the tree itself will need at least a couple of gallons of water a day when in leaf. As stated below, stress due to lack of water won't help. They really wouldn't do well in a glasshouse, and would do better planted direct into the ground rather than in pots, even if they are on a very dwarfing rootstock like M27.
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: davholla on August 23, 2007, 12:47:35
If I had space for them in the ground - they would be there.
Anyway the pots are 26cm wide  32 cm high is that big enough ??
Or should I repot them ?
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: jennym on August 23, 2007, 22:41:28
I'd say that they should be re-potted, preferably when they are dormant, in winter, into pots at least 2 or 3 times the size you have now. They won't flourish in what is essentially a cubic foot of soil.
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on August 24, 2007, 09:25:05
Get the biggest containers you can, and give them new compost; do it around October. how much light are they getting where they are?
Title: Re: Apples trees dying
Post by: davholla on August 24, 2007, 10:12:07
They are in the shade a bit our back garden is north facing and they are in a corner to protect them from the wind.