Couch grass - getting a bit demoralised!

[Les_Woof]

So couch grass?

  What does it look like exactly, we have a covering all over our lottie which to me looks like grass,  how can i tell if it is the dreaded couch grass?

I was going to double dig it all and hope nothing came back up...but if something did just keep on top of it....would this not be a good idea?

Please help before I start digging.

Les
Confused Couch Grass Hater.

[Les_Woof]

[Ceri]

When you dig, all the different clumps of grass are connected with evil white/creamy yellow roots, which grow along a bit, and then up into grass shoots, and then along a bit more, and more, and more.  When you pull them they break quite easily, and the bits left in the soil just grow some more, and more!  

[Tenuse]

The roots are also quite fibrous, even a bit hairy looking.

But it's very satisfying to give a gentle tug and out they come from the clump of earth on your spade :-)

Ten x

[Hels_Bels]

Isn't it good too, when you see a little bit poking out of the top, turn it over with the fork and find a lump the size of a football!!!

We're really lucky and have a huge communal compost heap at he plot so everyone puts their couch grass on that.

In answer to the question about what is and isn't grass, I've decided to pull it all up - after all, even if it's 'benign' I'd rather use the space for grwoing veggies! ;)

[campanula]

tenuse, i agree.
honestly, it could be brambles (which i got my sweetheart do do as they were brutal). I love rootling down at soil level and hoiking couch roots out. They will all go eventually but i spend about 20 times longer handweeding than digging (well, forking at any rate). I sorta hoik a great heap of stuff on my fork and chuck it about a bit, shaking fork around so the earth kinda crumbles (mine does, iknow thew heavy clay lot have it a bit tougher). Then i get down on my kneeling mat (what a mardy!) and rustle about, poking and pulling. Course, I can usually onlymanage about 3squ.metres every session but, in truth, I am overwhelmed by the huge space anyway and it is good to focus on very tenable amounts( like a metre or so).
Good luck, remember, it might be ground elder or bindweed or that sodding speedwell sorta stuff with big hairy leaves and HUGE taproots.
suzy

[gavin]

Little bit of advice remembered from a student job years ago - if it's got white roots, it's a nasty and pull it out!  Covers the thsitles, bindweed, coltsfoot and couch grass I could have problems with.

Hels_Bels - what happens with your communal compost heap?  Do people use the compost, or is it just an evergrowing heap of decaying vegetation?  

If it is used for compost, how careful are people NOT to throw on potatoes and potato haulms, or brassica roots?  I'd never, ever use the huge heap at the end of our allotment site for compost - but then few of the other plotholders want to use compost;  they chuck anything and everything - including loads of club-rooted brassica and diseased potato stuff!


If you do want to use home-made compost, you might think about starting your own heap/s;  free nutrition, free conditioner ----- and as much as anything, you aren't throwing away your valuable top-soil.

My beds are considerably higher than path level - cos almost everything (except pots and brassica roots) goes back in, via the compost heap.  Some of my neighbours' plots are anything up to 4 inches BELOW path level, cos they're throwing away so much soil, and not getting anything back.

Just a thought!

All best - Gavin

[Tenuse]

Should you not throw brassica remains on a compost heap then? Even leaves, or is it just roots?

Ten x

[gavin]

Sorry, Tenuse - my ambiguity!  Brassica leaves, heads and stalks (I chop 'em up roughly first) DO go on my compost heap --- but NOT the roots.

 :-[ :) :)

All best - Gavin

[Doris_Pinks]

My plot abuts the communial compost heap on our site, it just gets bigger and bigger as the years go by! Judging by all the old rubbish people throw on there, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole to put on my plot!Couch, brassicas, dandelions the size of carrots! We even get plastic being thrown on..drives me crazy! So I have my own compost heap, and have to put up with everyone elses weeds creeping towards me! (oh and by the way, whilst clearing my "new" bit today, found a safe someone had dumped :o.........empty unfortunately!)

[Ceri]

a safe? pop a bit of glass on top - hey, a free cold frame!

[Doris_Pinks]

Hmmmmmm good thinking Ceri!!

[john_miller]

 I'm posting this to, hopefully, provide some encouragement, not be a botanical pedant. The white parts of couch grass are not roots but modified underground stems (rhizomes). The actual roots of couch grass are the fibrous brown threads emanating from the rhizomes at each node.
  Like all stems they tend to grow very close to, or above, the soil surface. Practically, this means that you don't have to dig very deep to get rid of the rhizomes. The problems everyone experiences come from the thick mat that the rhizomes form- news to no-one I'm sure! Because they are underground stems they dessicate very rapidly when exposed to sun or wind. This is a very good way of preventing them re-growing if they are to be added to the compost heap. Because rhizomes grow very close to the surface another way of eradicating them is deep burying them as they do not have the food reserves in the true roots to grow out. However this method requires thorough burying- just a little exposed rhizome will allow the plant to grow out.
  Another property of couch grass is that it cannot stand repeated close cropping. On a large area sheep have been, and still are, used to eradicate it. On a small scale repeated close mowing or strimming of "lawns" will eventually kill it, as will hoeing in beds.
  While Gavin is reporting success with a trench the only time I tried it I found the rhizomes simply started following the soil surface around the trench walls. Attempts to dig these rhizomes out ended up destroying the trench.
  
  

[campanula]

hey gavin,
 i also subscribe to the white roots theory but i tend to phrase it a bit more rudely - if it's white, it's sh*t*
cheers, suzy

[Hels_Bels]

Hi All

In answer to the communal compost heap question, I have only ever seen couch grass on it, although there may be nasties hidden I must admit. When I asked my club secretary if it was OK for the weeds, he said it would be fine because it would probably be left to rot for about 7 years anyway - but I have a feeling that isn't enough time to get rid of clubroot? :-/

As sson as I clear more of the dratted grass I will get myself a bin to put all my own stuff into, but I must admit I will probably use the biggie for the couch - it will get VERY hot and hopefully break it all down. By the time it's ready I may well have moved on anyway.

I know that's not completely community spirited of me, but I'm trying to be 'right' about what I put in it! ;)

[colleenemp]

I have twtch...is that the same stuff? I dig up a couple of spade fulls and then pick out all the roots....sigh....there is no other way.....glad my plot is small.... :)

[delboy]

I have been digging out new beds this last week, and have put couch/bindweed/marestail into a black dustbin.

My hope is that they will rot down if I cover the bin and leave it for a year.

So, will they rot down?

Or should I simply burn the whole lot?

[Palustris]

We have just dug out a couple of unproductive pear trees. The couch grass roots went down below the pear roots and into the pure sand which is our sub soil, a good 2 feet down. What chance do you stand of weeding that out. If you completely exclude light  for long enough, yes it will rot down. Just be glad the seeds are over 90% non-viable!

[Robert_Brenchley]

Are you sure those were couch roots? Mine have always been quite shallow-rooted, except where I managed to dig them in deep when I first dug the plot, and even there they didn't last very long at depth. Have you got any horsetail mixed up with it?

[Heldi]

What do horsetail roots look like?

[amphibian]

Don't burn or compost couch grass (twitch/witch grass/quack grass), take the rhizomes and steep them in water, they will rot in the water and this water can then be used as a liquid feed for your plants.

The turf I pile onto a sheet of weed control fabric, upside down, I then lift and tie them, like when you tie the cornors of a hanky to make a makeshift head covering; then I pile some more turves on top and cover with more weed control fabric, which is tucked under the lower piece and secured with gaffer tape. What you should now have is a large piece of ravioli, I then poke holes through this ravioli and plant strawberries through it, they love it. Every so often the couch makes a bid for freedom through the strawberry holes, but it is easily removed before reaching the four leaf stage. As your strawberries grow enlarge the holes, and cut new ones for runners.

If you construct your ravioli on a large sturdy pallet, then you have a massive moveable strawberry mound. It does look a bit like you are growing strawberries through a body bag though.