Babington's leek study

[goodlife]

Well..seeds often take some time to germinate and they need specific conditions to do so AND survive before they are robust enough to cope against elements, pests etc. Bulbils/lets are months ahead development, they are cosseted and provided for by the mother plant and they are that much bigger to take on pest and physical damage too.
It is astonishing indeed...but it makes sense...though how did the plants know when their DNA was good enough to carry on by bulblets only and they could forget all that hassle with pollen transfer... What made one variety think that seeds would be the 'answer' for their success..
It would be so interesting to be able to see what were the environmental triggers to that selection..
I NEED MORE proper plant programs!!! GIVE ME GEEKY DETAILS ...biology... rather than never ending animal/nature/gardening stuff!!!   ...no that there is anything wrong with nature/animal programs as such..

All this thinking could keep me entertained for ages... ...sad of what! 

[goodlife]

[goodlife]

Right...(1st photo)here is 'my leek', these were planted in green this spring when just emerged little things. They are reasonably good size and since all the TLC they've received from me was space and teeny bit of compost and fertilizer into planting holes. They've had to defend themselves...survived competition from weeds and no water other than what nature provided...AND they DIDN'T suffer any rust even my struggling garlic was only few yards away..
(2nd photo) Same age 'youngsters' , but still growing in their original clump..not thinned out.
(3rd) Same but washed to show developing bulbs
(4th) Ordinary leek's bulbils...yes, they do them but not in such a quantity as my leek (wild leek).

[galina]

Thank you for these super pictures goodlife.   

They are a sizeable leek, that's for sure.  And as you say, no rust and no leek moth damage.  Picture 4, the ordinary leek, looks like it has a bit of damage.  The bulbs are of a good size,  I did not expect that at all.  Certainly a fabulous perennial leek to have and it seems to thrive without fuss too. 

Yes I get bulbils from ordinary leek as well, especially when it was wet at flowering time.  When the seed making progress is obviously inhibited (rain, no pollinating insects), then they 'switch' to the other mechanism of producing live babies.  It is always worth checking seedheads over, there are almost always a few lurking, especially near the stem. 

I have never had leek moth damage (so far) on Babington Leek and wondered whether that was because the mild garlicky flavour discourages the moth.  Does your Perlzwiebel leek have a hint of garlic or is it just leek flavoured?

Thank you for dashing out and taking the photos. 

[goodlife]

Does your Perlzwiebel leek have a hint of garlic or is it just leek flavoured?

You know, I don't have no idea... I admit I've never tasted it raw..it has been just 'shoved' amongst the other ingredients into stew pot and let to 'mingle'.
Now that you've asked about it...I must make effort to taste and 'see'.

Btw...I'm going to sort those 'babies' out over weekend, wrap them up for postie and get them sent for you...
They are bit on the larger side that I would like them to be for transplanting..but they will still take, it just that they might jump into 'baby' production mode in next year...maybe even flowering..

[galina]

Awesome!  Thank you goodlife       

[Robert_Brenchley]

I'm really confused about how to classify these things at the moment. I've got 'Minogue', something else which looks similar with greenish bulbs, but which doesn't seem to form the little bulbils (the bulbs grow to about an inch diameter, then split), and Babbington's.

[galina]

They have just arrived and looking VERY good.  Thank you very much goodlife 

[galina]

I'm really confused about how to classify these things at the moment. I've got 'Minogue', something else which looks similar with greenish bulbs, but which doesn't seem to form the little bulbils (the bulbs grow to about an inch diameter, then split), and Babbington's.

Robert, You and us all.  It is not easy.  But thanks to the thesis, we can be quite certain that goodlife's leek is Perlzwiebel aka allium ampeloprasum var sectivum and mine (which is the one that went into the seed circle a few years ago) is Babington Leek, aka allium ampeloprasum var Babingtonii.  Still unsure to find a classification for Minogue myself.   

[goodlife]

If you lot are interested...I can keep eye on the 'situation' and save some youngsters for next year...maybe I'm trying to catch them in 'pearl' stage (summer) when they are bit effort to find in the soil but very easy to post 
I don't know yet how many I could supply for in first time round, but start giving me 'hints' and when the time is right..I'll give you shout when they are ready.
Oh...can't get my brain in gear today...but I'm sure you know what I mean...

[Robert_Brenchley]

Yes, I'd be glad of some. I'm amassing a lot of perennial onions at the moment; the more the merrier really, as it should all help understand the classification once I can get my head round it!

[Vinlander]

I found an Autumn 1998 edition of Future Foods catalogue with Babbington's Leek on P18.

Quote: "a long flower stalk carries a mass of bulbils, with seed seldom (never?) produced" and "underground daughter bulbs ....  will grow away more rapidly if the very mtough protective coat is slit carefully with a sharp knife".

Typically excellent and useful advice from Jeremy and his team - this source is much missed.     

On P19 is Allium cepa aggregatum - multiplier onions: "Besancon" (c cedilla), "Potato Onion" and "Southern White Shallot". Followed by Allium cepa proliferum "Tree Onion" described as "possibly the long-forgotten Catawissa Red".                   

I might also try this advice:

" bulbils planted in January having been kept in a refrigerator did better than September sown ones. "

with flower-top bulbils from hardneck garlics and leeks (I'm always interested in propagating rogue leeks that have vivid purple leaves in winter and/or really nice flowers in reds and purples - reduces the pressure to waste my time growing non-edible stuff).

Cheers.

[goodlife]

Yayy... Have you still got real paper copy of it..?
Were there no other perennial leeks then?

[galina]

Vinlander, that's excellent information. 

The only problem is that I cannot find goodlife's leek described there.  Also with Babington Leek it isn't the bulbils that have the hard skin, it is the bulblets.  The bulbils sprout readily, the bulblets not so much.  I wonder whether the fridge advice and the slitting the wrapper advice is meant for the bulblets (which are appendages to the underground bulbs).  Elephant garlic has similar bulblets with a hard yellow-brown cover with a sharp point.  The wrappers on the top bulbils (that develop inside the flower) can be removed with ease and are often only partially developed.

Did they sell bulblets?  The only catalogue I have is summer 99, which doesn't have any multiplier onions in them. 

[Vinlander]

Now you mention it I'm sure they used to sell "3 cornered leek", maybe more. I will have to look for some older catalogues - I always kept them because they were so informative - it's just a question of where...

They definitely sold " top" bulbils - the "underground daughter bulbs" are presumably too big?

Incidentally the best substitute I've found is the website at "Agroforestry Research" dot- something, but be aware that "edible" means little more than that - "edible and delicious" means it might be interesting.

I also kept most of Jeremy Cherfas' "Herbivore" articles from Kew magazine - among the  highlights were: How did they make gazpacho in Europe before tomatoes arrived (grapes!) and how did such a small population/density in the Americas find the one-in-millions hybrid that was maize (they were already all out looking for seed heads infected with a delicious fungus) - brilliant stuff.

Cheers.

[goodlife]

  You do sound like my kind of 'gardener'....all manner of interesting plant related info stashed away for 'future reference' 
I wonder how much good info is 'lost' or is not available for 'normal' people...all stashed away in achieves, gathering dust...and just because it was brought up times before internet...and digging it out is like looking for snapped up, half a needle from huge barn full of hay..

[Robert_Brenchley]

I've heard of three-cornered leek, it's possibly the same as ransoms, but I'm not sure, and I'm at my daughter's for a few days with no books.

[goodlife]

I've heard of three-cornered leek, it's possibly the same as ransoms, but I'm not sure, and I'm at my daughter's for a few days with no books.

3-corned leek is not same as ransoms....ransoms =wild garlic
They both look and taste different...but equally rampant growers

[artichoke]

Goodlife, I sent you some three cornered leek and wild garlic ?2 years ago.....hope it is they that are growing rampantly. Three cornered leeks are already up in back garden, useful for adding a bit of greenery to soups, casseroles, omelettes etc.

[goodlife]

Goodlife, I sent you some three cornered leek and wild garlic ?2 years ago.....hope it is they that are growing rampantly. Three cornered leeks are already up in back garden, useful for adding a bit of greenery to soups, casseroles, omelettes etc.

OH YES...they are rampant indeed! Leeks are up here too..though under the snow at the moment, but I hope I can start harvesting them soon And not only that...last year I lifted clump up and divided some for friends too
As for the garlic....it is still managed to stay in its allocated spot..JUST..I get loads of flowers from them and they have set seeds and seeded around freely too...not a problem though..they have still room and are happy to grow where not much else does. In fact I did chop all flower heads off last year to stop them seeding any more...and weeded some newly emerged seedling off too 
They've been great success Thanks to you and your fresh supply...that was the trick for my previous problems

[Robert_Brenchley]

What size do your 'leeks' get to when planted out separately, Goodlife? On the face of it, they look very much like some mystery plants which were passed on to me last ear, but mine only get to about a foot high, with, as far as I can see so far, one-inch bulbs. Splitting Minogue in March was probably a mistake as a lot of them don't have much root, but the all looked perfectly happy when I was on the plot yesterday. They're going to have to fend for themselves as I'm sanding for the council, which is a massive job (10 000 leaflets to hand deliver), and I won't have much time to spare till after the election.

Does anyone know anything about that the Americans call 'Perennial Leeks'? It doesn't seem to be Babbington's, but I can't make out what it is.