Removing raspberries and putting in blackberries - soil advice please

[newspud9]

After 10 years of raspberries I've decided to remove the canes as the fruits are increasingly bland, and it is a bit of a bugger to keep them weed free as they weren't planted in neat rows. I want to replace them with blackberries which I much prefer and would like to know if I should be doing anything particular to the soil and when the best time to plant them would be. Many thanks for all the comments

[newspud9]

[Beersmith]

'morning

I think you have two issues to consider.

The first issue is that after ten years the soil is likely to have become a bit impoverished. Whatever you chose to replace the raspberries would probably benefit from a good load of manure worked into the ground. But that is the easy bit.

The second issue is that it has always been strongly recommended never to replace old raspberry canes with new ones in the same ground. Raspberries last a long time but not forever. They might go up to fifteen years but sooner or later they will weaken and lose vigour. There may be some build up of soil born pests and diseases and raspberries are prone to some virus conditions. You would not put new canes into that place.

So the big question is are the issues that impact raspberries likely to impact blackberries? I regret I do not know. But I think this is where you should direct your research. This is the difficult bit.

[newspud9]

Thanks Beersmith...just seen Monty waxing lyrical about tayberries so I might try them too.

[Beersmith]

Tayberries?

Perhaps worth seeing if you could try some before planting.

Rather sharper in flavour than say blackberries, they are not to everyone's taste. I am not a big fan. My main issue is that they only seem to be at their best for a very short period.  Underripe they are a bit too sour for my taste. Overripe they become bland and flabby. At perfect ripeness they are strongly fruity without being too sweet.

But seriously, the period when they are at that height of perfection is pretty brief. When I was growing them all too often I would time it badly and end up disappointed. They are very popular and many people love them. It is very much a matter of personal taste.

Almost forgot. They are not rampant. So it's quite easy to keep the bushes tidy and well controlled. Also you can get a thornless variety, which is worth considering as thorns are pretty abundant on the standard variety.

[newspud9]

Many thanks.  The area is 10' x 5'....big enough to grow both?...or is soft-fruit advice not to mix?

[Vinlander]

Thorny Tayberries are slightly more thorny than raspberries but there's no comparison to blackberries.

Interesting point: I have never tasted a thornless blackberry that wasn't deeply disappointing - when you breed for anything except flavour the flavour always goes out with the bathwater.

Thorny Tayberries however are only slightly more tasty than thornless ones - whoever bred them won a good second place in that lottery. Thorny ones are worth having if you have enough room to work around them but the thornless ones can go anywhere - next to paths, sharing a flowerbed etc. etc.

Beersmith is right in that if you want them at the most delicious stage (a light-mid maroon colour) you have to pick them daily - but as I've said before they are not as bad as Loganberries that have to be picked hourly or they're only fit for stewing.

If I can't pick them maroon tomorrow I still enjoy them at pillar-box red and slightly sharp.

On that point - what kind of apples do you like? If you like Cox's bought in winter when they are softer but sweeter and less sharp then I'd say you probably prefer an apple pie to a fresh apple and you are unlikely to love Tayberries as much as I do. If you like Gala or Golden "Delicious" (like they say, a big lie is more effective than a little one), then you'd probably better skip the apple pie and go straight to the baby-food section.

It runs in families - you like what you ate as a kid - my family always bought Granny Smiths, would always save a ripe Bramley from going to the pot and eat it raw, and in the 60s & 70s were often heard to moan about the fact that Sturmers had disappeared from the shops.

NB. If next June and July are scorching like this year Tayberries will need a bit of shadecloth or they will cook on the vine before they are ripe - and they taste awful,  not stewed (they make the best jam) - though part of it might be the shock.

Cheers.

PS. In my garden I can't offer a strawberry or any other berry to a visitor because they might have that weird "parsley" taste on them - it's not horrible but it's very wrong. I'm now sure it is caused by Shield Bugs - if you squash them they have an identical smell and they use it as a defence.